Kontakt: Danske Slægtsforskere                   Forum:

Spilleregler


 
Aktuelt Foreningen Forum Kilder Værktøjer Lokalforeninger Kontakt Andet
Hjælp Søg direkte i forum Søg i forum via Google Søg i gammelt forum Søg i gammelt forum via Google

Sider: 1 [2] 3
  Udskriv  
Forfatter Emne: Markgreves regiment, kaptajn Wilsteds kompagni i Rensburg, 1741  (Læst 919 gange)
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #30 Dato: 06 Mar 2019 - 19:53 »

That Anne Margrethe Klein should have been etatsråd Krabbes mistress I find plausibel. Krabbe dies in 1728 - 71 years old.
If he is the father, and it is one of his sons who have mede an illigitime son, I don't know because I am not sure it is Ole Krabbe who dies here.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127424#171056,28713123

But it could explain the Skøllermanns depart from Aale to Bække, also their apparently poorness .

And Lisa you know were the family went to, to Abild in Tønder.  When Hans Christopher died in 1796- se that- it is written that Peter Henrik comes from Ohle (its not a call name for Ann Margrethe- I mistook)  and is Kådner. In the one- which is hard to read, I think there stands that Peter Henrik Skøllerman is Witve- it means that he still lives.
Try to get it translated- also the place where Hans Christopher lives -in the one I think it says Swilde.but....

Citat
Hans Christopher Schöllerman, Abild sogn, Tønder amt, kontraministeriaibog, top left, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17215889#200854,38034276
Hans Christopher Schylleman, Abild sogn, Tønder amt, hovedministerialbog, bottom right, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17215712#200837,38031303

greetings Grethe

Where Hans Christopher lives is so hard to read.

I found an old  discussion where Swilde was a misreading for Smilde.
Smilde Parish is in Drenthe province in the Netherlands.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilde

Not that it makes any sense that he should be buried in Abild Sogn then?
Can't find any place name fitting Swilde or Smilde in "Tønder, Højer og Lø Herred".

There are some weird splotches "under and over" the letter following the S-.
Is this a weird attempt for writing a -t-.
If the place name is Stilde -> there actually is a Stilde Å in Brørup Sogn, Malt Herred, Ribe Amt.
It run between Lindknud and Brørup.
See: https://map.krak.dk/?c=55.521051,9.008789&z=13&q=%22stilde%20%C3%A5%22;geo

That is still sort of the right area.
Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #31 Dato: 07 Mar 2019 - 13:31 »

Hej Lisa and Niels


I have tried to read where Hans Christophers lives in Abild. He and his wife have several times been to confession (opslag 287, 294,298, 306)
in the church, and I have read as Thwild, Twild, Trild, Frild Thwild , in the map here I have found possible local names: Tyvse, Göl, Hvirl å, , Twedt and Trilde - in German and Søndejysk (or plattdeutsch) they are spelled and said different. I myselv beleive it is Trilde.

But maybe some-one other can read it better than I in the churchbook.

About the dead of Peter Henrik Skøllerman, Henrik Henriksen Skøllerman, It is difficult because , if he still lives in Bække, Asbo the priest there has noted the dead persons in the margin and they are very bad written and therefore to to read also the often are spoiled.

https://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=lkaPreussiske&id=8362

greetings Grethe
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #32 Dato: 07 Mar 2019 - 15:51 »

Hej Lisa and Niels


I have tried to read where Hans Christophers lives in Abild. He and his wife have several times been to confession (opslag 287, 294,298, 306)
in the church, and I have read as Thwild, Twild, Trild, Frild Thwild , in the map here I have found possible local names: Tyvse, Göl, Hvirl å, , Twedt and Trilde - in German and Søndejysk (or plattdeutsch) they are spelled and said different. I myselv beleive it is Trilde.

But maybe some-one other can read it better than I in the churchbook.

About the dead of Peter Henrik Skøllerman, Henrik Henriksen Skøllerman, It is difficult because , if he still lives in Bække, Asbo the priest there has noted the dead persons in the margin and they are very bad written and therefore to to read also the often are spoiled.

https://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=lkaPreussiske&id=8362

greetings Grethe

There is a Tvile spelled as Twilde in 1688.
It is in Åstrup Sogn, Gørding Herred, Ribe Amt.

If Trilde then there is actually one in Abild Sogn and close by is a Trilde Toft!
So I think you are right here, that this is what is written.
It lies (or rather was) between Travsted and Adelvad.

"Subst. ænyda. trille„rund Skive“. Ordet forekommer flere Gange i sønderjy. Marknavne, sikkert sigtende til Arealernes Form, samt som Navn paa adskillige Grunde og Smaaøer".
Kilde: Danske stednavne.
 
« Sidste ændring: 07 Mar 2019 - 15:54 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #33 Dato: 08 Mar 2019 - 03:28 »

I have not had much time yesterday or today to do family research, but I am trying to catch up. 

Today I found more information on the Hans Christopher Schøllermann who died in Abild sogn in 1796.  He was from Trelde near Fredericia.  If he was 78.5 years old when he died, then he was born about Sept. 1717.  I don’t know where he was between 1717 and 1755.  From 1755 to 1765 he was in Løgumkloster where 3 of his children were born.  His 4th child was born in Abild in 1765.  Three of the children married.  His wife Maria died in 1789 in Tønder, and he died in 1796 in Abild.

The Hans Christopher Schøllermann that Niels found in Wilster’s Company was from Åle, and age 15 in 1744 and age 25 in 1754, so born about 1729.  I found a H.C.S. born in Åle in 1724.  The year is not quite right to be either the one in Wilster’s Company or the one who died in Abild.

The Peter Christian Schøllermann in Wilster’s Company died in Burkal sogn near Tønder in June 1757 age 24.  That would make him the right age to be born in Bække sogn in 1732, a son of Henrik Schøllermann.  P.C.S. was married in Burkal sogn in 1756.  His only child was named Ann Margrethe.

Tomorrow I will look in Fredericia Trinitatis to see if there are any Schøllermanns from Trelde.  It’s funny that my family and I stayed in a very nice B&B in Trelde in 2017 while we visited Fredericia!

Grethe, I will search through the Personalhistorisk Tidsskrift name index tonight.  There is the Hendrich Skøllermand who married Barbara Simonsdatter in 1911:276, and a Henrich Schøllermand who married Kirsten Jacobsdatter in 1914:116.  Those 2 are the only Skøllermanns.  I will look for some other family names and then maybe ask for a lookup if I can’t get it online.

More to do tomorrow, and rain will keep me indoors. 

Many thanks for your help as I work on these relatives.

Lisa P.
Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #34 Dato: 08 Mar 2019 - 13:02 »


Today I found more information on the Hans Christopher Schøllermann who died in Abild sogn in 1796.  He was from Trelde near Fredericia.  If he was 78.5 years old when he died, then he was born about Sept. 1717.  I don’t know where he was between 1717 and 1755.  From 1755 to 1765 he was in Løgumkloster where 3 of his children were born.  His 4th child was born in Abild in 1765.  Three of the children married.  His wife Maria died in 1789 in Tønder, and he died in 1796 in Abild.

Tomorrow I will look in Fredericia Trinitatis to see if there are any Schøllermanns from Trelde.  It’s funny that my family and I stayed in a very nice B&B in Trelde in 2017 while we visited Fredericia!

So Trelde in Vejlby Sogn was probably meant then. Vejlby only have church-books from 1814.
Before 1814 it seems that church-book information from that region could be under Fredericia Trinitatis.

Fredericia war a garrison town and in the period 1679-1729 units of "Fynske Geworbne Regiment til fods" [Bataljon 4] were placed in the town. Sadly it only have stambøger preserved from 1758.

I checked the Borgerskabsliste for Fredericia 1670-1844, but no Schöllermann (or variants there of)

Fredericia also both had a French- and a German Reformed congregation, each with their own church book.
The german reformed church book is not online anywhere as far as I know.
The French one has entries from 1722; but contains no Schöllermann until 1730.

Fredericia also had a catholic congregation (Sankt Knud): That church book is not online either.

So if you don't find any Schöllermann in Frederica Trinitatis, it is theoretically possible that an early Schöllermann could have been reformed or catholic. Probably a professional soldier...if we think about the family history.
Logget
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #35 Dato: 11 Mar 2019 - 01:31 »

I’ve had some time on the computer this weekend. 

I did not find any Schøllermans in Fredericia Trinitatis or Michaelis, ca 1715-1722.  I also did not see anyone from Trelde, so I might look for other parishes nearby with early churchbooks. 

I looked at all the Schøllermans in Åle sogn, and some of the Krabbes also.  Unfortunately the Åle KB start in July 1721 and there is nothing earlier than that.  Peter Schillerman first appears in the Åle churchbook on 1 Oct 1722, last appears on 3 Dec 1730, and in those 8 years, he had 4 children and was a sponsor for 3 children.  His wife’s name is not given.  It could be Anne Margrete Klein, so I followed her.  She first appears on 21 Jul 1721 and last on 17 Jul 1731, and in those 10 years, she carried, held or was sponsor for 12 children.  The long time between the birth of her child and her introduction in church in 1724 happened to other mothers at that time of year.  So maybe the pastor was away in September when her 6 weeks time was up.  There was an Adelheit Klein buried in Åle on 20 Apr 1727 that could be a relative, no age was given.  Sometimes Mette Margrete Krabbe is a sponsor for a child of Peter Schillerman, but Peter and A.M. Klein are never sponsors for any Krabbe children.  If my Ole Krabbe Schøllerman was born in Åle, it was before the churchbooks begin.  Maybe he was named in honor of Ole Krabbe, and maybe he was his bastard son. 

Grethe,
Since you said the burials in Bække sogn KB are very dark and hard to read, I looked again to see if I could read anything.  The images on familysearch are a little better.  I did not find any Schøllermans, but I also noticed that there is a gap in the burials from 1741 to 1755.  So they could have died in Bække during that time.  Veerst sogn with the same pastor has the same gap in burials.  I guess there were burials done in Bække during those years but the church book is missing now.

The Personalhistorisk Tidsskrift for the 2 Henrich Schøllermanns are online at https://tidsskrift.dk/personalhistorisk_tidsskrift/issue/archive.  They were marriages in 1667 and 1672 in the Sjællandsk Register, listed in Uddrag af Kancelliets Registranter ang. Vielser, Daab og Begravelser, 1660-70 and 1670-75.

And thank you for finding Hans Christopher S. in the Abild sogn confessions.   I do think the place is Trelde by Egeskov north of Fredericia.  The best source was from the death of his wife who came from the same place, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17217394#202766,38442063

Niels,
Thank you for the Schøllermanns in the Rendsborg army roster.  These Rendsborg army rosters are different from the 12. Bataillon stambøger?  Are the rosters online?  The stambøger have had useful information and I want to look for more.  Maybe I can find the father, Peter or Henrich Schøllerman.

I am starting to run out of good ideas!

Thanks,

Lisa P.
Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #36 Dato: 11 Mar 2019 - 16:36 »

Hej Lisa

I also looked in the Personalihistorisk tidskrift, and the link to the original maerial is Sjællandske Register book no. 3, for Hendrik and Kirstens marriage in 1672, and Sjællandske register book nr. 296, for hendrich and birgittes marriage in 1668, u.Tr and L -uden trolovelse og lysning, without  Betrothal and clearing for marriage.

Hendrik  must have been employed by the King in aalholm, where he is a bailiff, dansk ridefoged in aalholm amt. could be aalholm Slot 8castle), He has then asked the king allowance to marry. There are 2 reasons for that either emplyment, being in the army or being close familiar to each other.  In those cases one had to ask the King permission to marriage.

The sjællandske register is a register over different matters and in that register are written where to original papers are situared. I mean it is online. but as you can see there are several books and it is listed after name and date.

Skøllermand, Schöllermann etc. is a very rare name in Denmark, so I think that this ridefoged Hendrich is the forfather for you ancestors.


About Peter Christipher, when his wife dies it says that he comes from Emmeriche!!!, so he must have been there before he moved to Abild, because he is not born there as you already know.  <Also they call him a "colonist", which was the name they gave the germans who were invited up here to agriculture the Heide (Moors)......!

Of course the noble family didn't want common mebers of the society to be fathers/Whitnesses   for their children. But here is Johan Hendriks contrtact with Ole Krabbe over his house in Aale -right side mid
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=329818#329818,66350313l

By the way Lisa do you speak and read/write danish!!

To have more information now is more difficult but the "jordebøger" can help , I don't know if Bierre where the Krabbes lived has a manor and they have kept the books. Also help would be if any of the Skøllermans have bought houses, earth/soil or have had an auction, then there will be material to find.

Grethe
 
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #37 Dato: 11 Mar 2019 - 21:42 »

Hendrik  must have been employed by the King in aalholm, where he is a bailiff, dansk ridefoged in aalholm amt. could be aalholm Slot 8castle), He has then asked the king allowance to marry. There are 2 reasons for that either emplyment, being in the army or being close familiar to each other.  In those cases one had to ask the King permission to marriage.

The sjællandske register is a register over different matters and in that register are written where to original papers are situared. I mean it is online. but as you can see there are several books and it is listed after name and date.

Skøllermand, Schöllermann etc. is a very rare name in Denmark, so I think that this ridefoged Hendrich is the forfather for you ancestors.

Thank you for this additional information.   I agree that Schøllermann is a rare name in Denmark, and that the Henrichs in P.T. may be my ancestors.  Maybe I could trace those 2 Henrichs forward to see what happened to them.  I will add that to my list of things to do.

Citat
About Peter Christipher, when his wife dies it says that he comes from Emmeriche!!!, so he must have been there before he moved to Abild, because he is not born there as you already know.  <Also they call him a "colonist", which was the name they gave the germans who were invited up here to agriculture the Heide (Moors)......!

There is a village northeast of Tønder called Emmerschede, and that's where I thought he lived.  Was 'Colonist' used for settlers before the potato Germans?  Hans Christopher S. was born in Trelde ca 1717 (or was he born in Åle in 1724?).

Citat
But here is Johan Hendriks contrtact with Ole Krabbe over his house in Aale -right side mid
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=329818#329818,66350313

Oh that is exciting, thank you for finding that!  Most of the people were from Åle.  So his name was Johan Pieter Sköllermand.  Maybe Henrich Schøllermand in Bække was a different person after all.

I don't 'speak' Danish, but I learned to read and write it enough to send emails and read websites, books, newspapers.  I'm not very good, but knowing some means I am happy to look at records on AO, page by page if there is no index, and I try to transcribe and understand what I find.

So far, for each place my Schøllermanns lived, I have searched AO for the parish, herred and amt and looked for records from the right time.  I'm not sure what else I should look for.  Are the jordebøger under godser?  I have not tried that.

Thank you so much!

Lisa P.
Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #38 Dato: 11 Mar 2019 - 21:52 »

Citat fra: Lisa Petersen [51781
Niels,
Thank you for the Schøllermanns in the Rendsborg army roster.  These Rendsborg army rosters are different from the 12. Bataillon stambøger?  Are the rosters online?  The stambøger have had useful information and I want to look for more.  Maybe I can find the father, Peter or Henrich Schøllerman.

I am starting to run out of good ideas!

Thanks,

Lisa P.

Hi Lisa.

The army roster of Rendsborg (1736-1748) lists several army units stationed there in mostly 1748.
The index cards of the rosters are online here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/other/index-creator/81/17133051/17022214
The rosters themselves are not online.
The roster list from daisy for ordering to view in person at Rigsarkivet: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/fysiske_enheder_liste?a=rendsborg&b=m%C3%B8nstring&c=&d=1700&e=1850&f=&g=&h=&ngid=&ngnid=&heid=5043512&henid=5043512&epid=5043512&faid=11&meid=&m2rid=&side=1&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed=

It seems that this garrison roster is a fairly unique preservation.

Otherwise you don't have a lot of stambøger from earlier than the 1760's.
12th Battalion is very special of going back to 1730.
Of other infantry regiments, seemingly only Viborgske Geworbne Infanteri Regiment (discontinued in 1789) has stambøger even further back to 1716.
Otherwise it is only some cavalry regiments that have stambøger preserved that far back in time - some from even the 1600's; of those the Kyradser Regiments (breastplate armoured cavalry) are not yet put online by family search.

Se family search's lists of Danish army "stambøger": https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/416356?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Other documents for Jyske Geworbne Infanteri Regiment (12. Bataljon) are listed here on daisy [none of these online].
See: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskabers_arkivserier?a=Jyske+geworbne+Regiment&b=&c=&d=1&e=2019&f=&g=&h=&ngid=1231092&ngnid=3188854&heid=&henid=&epid=&faid=&meid=&m2rid=&side=&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed=

So the judicial protocols for the regiments are first preserved from 1750 as the earliest.
Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #39 Dato: 11 Mar 2019 - 22:18 »

Citat fra: Grethe Leerbech [814
About Peter Christipher, when his wife dies it says that he comes from Emmeriche!!!, so he must have been there before he moved to Abild, because he is not born there as you already know.  <Also they call him a "colonist", which was the name they gave the germans who were invited up here to agriculture the Heide (Moors)......!

Of course the noble family didn't want common mebers of the society to be fathers/Whitnesses   for their children. But here is Johan Hendriks contrtact with Ole Krabbe over his house in Aale -right side mid
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=329818#329818,66350313l
 

Hi Grethe.
What great finds - [while I have experience in military rolls I actually never really tried these kind of documents, since I generally can't read the handwriting]

About the contract doesn't it say Johan Pieter Schöllermann, skræder.
The line just below seems to say "Aalle Bye" (Åle) ?...? Wolgas? [Wolgast ?]

Wolgast is a town in Vorpommern-Greifswald.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolgast

So since you can read these texts much better than I - could this be his place of origin?

EDIT: Doesn't it say "Colonisten Hans Christopher Schöllermann auf Emmersche" [and not Emmeriche, which is Emmeriche-am-Rhein in Kleves].
See: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17217394#202766,38442063

In Tønder, Højer and Lø Herred, there was a special Emmerske Sogn for the villages Lille Emmerske & Store Emmerske.
See: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmerske_Sogn
Seems to also be called Tønder Landsogn.
See: https://historiskatlas.dk/@54.9556670,8.9151800,16z

They were proud of NOT speaking German and had their service in Danish, while the people of Tønder had service in German.
"Emmerske Bedehus", where they had their service, was from 1730.
See: https://www.dengang.dk/artikler/2502

Seems they were written in the same church book as Tønder Sogn.
« Sidste ændring: 11 Mar 2019 - 22:50 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #40 Dato: 12 Mar 2019 - 12:56 »

Hej Lisa
 You are right it is in Emmerske sogn near Tønder, as the churchbooks they use are Tønders. So just another search in a churchbook. 

I send you a translaten and transcription of the Leasing contract between Krabbe and Skøllermand, As it is in 1719 i beleive that it is Hendrichs father who have rent that house. But when Hendrich came in the army he also became a kind of private servant or private guard for Ole Krabbe, and then maybe his wife has had an affair -maybe not with Ole!!!- maybe with one of Oles Sons, or became pregnant against her will. .........

As you can see Krabbe owns more manors, try to see in familysearch if the manors are in the lists there-it could be.

I cant find the word "skrædder" in the text??? - No Johan Pieter is either:

1. an geworben soldier- professionel soldier - who has served his time out- and then setlled down in a nearby parish - to his former regiment.
2. A "poor", copyholder, who rents a house at Aale, by Krabbe - 1719 was an awfully year, because Denmark was in war with the Swedish- and so was northern germany also - "den store nordiske krig". And he could be a man who had fled from his home (in Germany) to Denmark. The swedish soldiers where cruel, and took everything, burnt the rest.  This war went on from 1700-1720, and the swedish soldiers walked or ravaged the whole baltic sea cost -Polen and Northgermany to come to Denmark.  And for Ole Krabbe was it necessary to rent all his houses, because a lot, an lot of farms and houses stodd empty because of the war. The swedish went high up in Jylland.


I don't  undestand why they call Hans Christopher, Colonist, but I wil try to look for it. I think there are som juristic rules, maybe oit is, that a colonist belongs directly to the King and is not under some nobleman. But I don't know.

Grethe


* skøllermand fæstekontrakt.docx (5.15 KB - downloadet 6 gange.)
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #41 Dato: 12 Mar 2019 - 18:37 »

Hej Niels

I did look more at the army rosters, at all the Sch- and Sk- names in case there were misspellings like Schillerman, but found no one besides what you already found.  I did find a surprise, though, a Samuel Schweckheimer from a small town near Heidelberg, Germany, where my mother’s grandparents were from.  I recognized the name and place easily, but he is not related to me.

I am looking at the stambøger today.  The 12th batallion takes the prize for the earliest stambog, 1730. 

Thanks for the daisy links but I don’t think I’ll pursue those now.


Hej Grethe

Thank you for the fæsteprotokol transcription and translation!  Very helpful.  I will search for the godser, if there are any records of them for the right time.

Also thanks for the information about the Swedish invasion, 1700-1720.  That war might explain why Peter Schøllermann’s sons enlisted in the military when they became of age.


I appreciate all your help!

Lisa P.
Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #42 Dato: 13 Mar 2019 - 13:37 »

HEJ Lisa

Johan Pieter Schøllermand: Oluf Krabbes clerck writes his forname  in "dutch" or "frisisk" that is a dialekt in the north of the dutch and german coast district Friesland. Så he might come from Holland or Germany.  When the great nordic war ended Denmark had a lot of the swedish soldiers in captivation and they should home, but as we both had lost a lot of our own soldiers and also of younger men, the king wanted, that all of the god and healthy young men who wanted to stay in Denmark either as soldiers or to settle down as farmers, citisens etc. should be welcome. And they suceeded of getting many soldiers -both professionels (geworben) and recruited (inrolled) - from 1715 one speaks about over 150.000 captivated soldiers and their officers staying in Denmark.  They were accomodated in the bigger cities in Jylland, but also in the countryside. And they should "own their own bread" they should work. Many noble families also saw a possibility to get new workforce to the mannors.
So Johan Pieter - (maybe later became Hans Peter in danish) could easily be either a professionel soldier from the swedish army or a professionel soldier from the danish or sachsish- who fought with the danish in the war.  Remember that at that time most of the armies were professionels that is leased soldiers.

About the word  "colonist" and the meaning. During the war with the swedish we also had the plague (Spanske syge), the army also brought that desease  to Denmark- and Germany etc. - so a lot of people died at that time by the Plague. Because of that, hunger, bad harvest, and the armies harvesting, there were a lot of empty farms and villages in Denmark, but sometimes the foreigners didn't want to be a serf- as all danish men were at that time - so if they should stay they wanted a ground/land free of the obligations from the mannor.
So a colonist at that time is a man who get a free landpiece - except of paying taxes of course, - and build his own house on the ground. Some of the  noblefamilies thought that this was a god idea and as the king had more land overall in Jylland also he sold land to the foreigners. Also he would like to have the Dutch from the "AlteLand" - a part in Germany, where dutch families had settled down and had make god farming- and growing of vegetables in that district, so he tried to do the same with his selfowned land(ground,) . And then in 1759 the idea began that we could invite them up here, so it became more structured.


The Skøllermann's in the south of Jylland are all poor people, so I have a litlle doubt, that they should be in family with the bailif Hendrich Skøllerman in Aalholm, but of course he could have had many sons (and daughters) and therefore he let them be recruited in the army- or as he had not land for them, they did it themselves. Hendrich is also a dutch/frisisk name

NB:  It could also be that Oluf Krabbes clerk was a dutchman and therefore he spelled Skøllermands name in dutch- but i doubt that.

Grethe   
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #43 Dato: 13 Mar 2019 - 15:44 »

Hej igen Lisa

I place here the applyment for copulation from Barbara Simonsdatters father to Henrich Schøllerman in aalholm. Her fathers name is Mickel Mickelsen Skomager (schumacher) . They got allowance to be married in his house. Also his marriage with Kirsten Jacobsdatter is allowed to be married in the house not the church. The letter from Skøllermand acc. Kirsten is not present only the kings allowance

maybe he was calvinist from Holland?

I cannot read it, but think it is something about money.

But you can try to get it translated, it is written in odl dansih and also with the 16th century's letters.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=19981271#272352,51935677

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=19981252#272310,51920203
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #44 Dato: 13 Mar 2019 - 18:40 »

Also I went through Nyhsted Kirkebøger 1647-1722 where the hendrich skøllermann (Schøllermann) lived

Here are the result.

he married Barbara Simonsdaughter in 1667 an got.
Friederich in 1668 - opslag 123 no. 3rd from down  - I can't read whats written at the at the line over last word -it could be Hendrich
Sophie Amalie 1669 - opslag 132
Simon 1671 - opslag 138
Then Barbara dies- not found dead, and he marry Kisten jacobsdatter
Peder 1673  opslag 150
Barbara 1674 - opslag 155
Johan  1676 - opslag 162
Ide Øllergaard - i think there are 2 daughters with that name - the first must have died - opslag 165 and 176
and no more children

Hendrich became Zholder (Tolder) in Nysted - costum officer. opslag 197 midt i

 Kirsten died in 1710 11 july, opslag 398
I haven't found Hendrich dead. but the deadlist only begins in 1706, so he could have died before that.


But both Peder and Johan could have been the skøllermanns in sønderjylland, does it fits with the ages at those 2 children Johan Pieter and Henrik Peder
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #45 Dato: 13 Mar 2019 - 21:02 »

Hej Niels

I did look more at the army rosters, at all the Sch- and Sk- names in case there were misspellings like Schillerman, but found no one besides what you already found.  I did find a surprise, though, a Samuel Schweckheimer from a small town near Heidelberg, Germany, where my mother’s grandparents were from.  I recognized the name and place easily, but he is not related to me.

I am looking at the stambøger today.  The 12th batallion takes the prize for the earliest stambog, 1730. 

Thanks for the daisy links but I don’t think I’ll pursue those now.

Lisa P.

Hi Lisa.

I checked also the stambog of Viborgske Geworbne Infanteri Regiment as it was formerly Holstenske Geworbne Infanteri Regiment (between 1735-1785).
No Schöllermann's sadly.

Schweckheimer is certainly an unusual name - as even from the same town as your great-grandparents.

So I searched on the name and found this:

"Schwagheimer/Schweckheimer, Marx/Mareks, 35 (1760), Einw., ev. luth., aus Württemberg. Familie (Mai 1760): Ehefrau (Anna Barbara und 4 Kinder. Ankunft in Fridericia (Jütland/DK) am 25. Mai 1760. Im Dez. 1760: Kolonie J9 „Molkenberg“, Amt Coldinghuus. Am 9. Sept. 1763: Kolonie J8 „Friderichshaab“, Amt Coldinghuus. Letztes Verzeichnis in Dänemark am 27. März 1764. Nach Russland ausgewandert. Ankunft in Kronstadt bei Sankt Petersburg mit dem Schiffer Reders aus Lübeck am 18. Mai 17661. Hat 17. Aug. 1766 den Kolonistenvertrag für die Kolonie „Hirschenhof“ Livland (Lettland) in Oranienbaum unterschrieben."
Source: https://deutsche-kolonisten.de/ansiedlung-deutscher-in-russland/livland-hirschenhof-und-helffreichshof/kolonisten-hirschenhof-1766/
- in the lists you will see other colony numbers.

A Marx/Mareks Schwackheimer that came to Denmark in 1760....
and from 1760-1763 at a "colony" J9 "Molkenberg" & J8 "Friederichshaab" in Koldinghus Amt.
(When we were speaking of colonists).

 

Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #46 Dato: 13 Mar 2019 - 22:21 »

HEJ Lisa

Johan Pieter Schøllermand: Oluf Krabbes clerck writes his forname  in "dutch" or "frisisk" that is a dialekt in the north of the dutch and german coast district Friesland. Så he might come from Holland or Germany.  When the great nordic war ended Denmark had a lot of the swedish soldiers in captivation and they should home, but as we both had lost a lot of our own soldiers and also of younger men, the king wanted, that all of the god and healthy young men who wanted to stay in Denmark either as soldiers or to settle down as farmers, citisens etc. should be welcome. And they suceeded of getting many soldiers -both professionels (geworben) and recruited (inrolled) - from 1715 one speaks about over 150.000 captivated soldiers and their officers staying in Denmark.  They were accomodated in the bigger cities in Jylland, but also in the countryside. And they should "own their own bread" they should work. Many noble families also saw a possibility to get new workforce to the mannors.
So Johan Pieter - (maybe later became Hans Peter in danish) could easily be either a professionel soldier from the swedish army or a professionel soldier from the danish or sachsish- who fought with the danish in the war.  Remember that at that time most of the armies were professionels that is leased soldiers.
Grethe   

Actually North-Frisian was and is spoken in Slesvig-Holsten, so he can easily be a local to the area.
You have three different pockets of Frisian Languages: [North-Frisian, Saterland-Frisian and West-Frisian]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_languages#/media/File:Frisian_languages_in_Europe.svg
They are so different as to not be mutually intelligible. If they had their own countries they would be regarded as 3 different languages [as Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are, though these three can also be regarded as a dialect continuum].
Even the many different dialects within North-Frisian are not mutually intelligible.

The census in 1803 have a big number of Schölermann & Schöllermann from South Slesvig and Holsten. So I wouldn't rule out a "local".

That it is spelled Johan Pieter could also be the clerk as you mention. 
Logget
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #47 Dato: 14 Mar 2019 - 02:09 »

Hej Grethe

Thank you for the historical background of the Great Northern War.   This was just ending when Johan Pieter got his land contract from Ole Krabbe.  It’s hard to imagine empty farms and villages.  I heard that the king invited French Hugenots to Fredericia about 1720, offering them no taxes for 20? years if they stayed.  I guess it was a good idea to bring people to Denmark to settle there.

Thank you for finding the marriage applications of Henrich Schøllerman in the 1600s!!!  They are beautiful with the old handwriting, which is mostly readable.  So it looks like the 2 Henrichs are the same man with 2 marriages.

And thanks very much for finding the children born in Nysted.  The churchbook images on familysearch are a little better than AO, but not good enough to read all the words about the first child Friederich.  I will look through the church records to see if I can find anything more.  You are probably right that Henrich may have died before 1706 and that either Johan or Peder could be the Peder in Åle.  But it’s really nice to have this family, thank you again for finding these people!


Hej Niels

Thanks for looking in the Holstenske Geworbne Regiment for Skøllermanns.  The name is not common around Denmark but seems to be more plentiful in Holsten, if the 1803 census is any indication.

The Marx Schwagheimer you found is from the same town, Lußheim, or Altlussheim today.  Very interesting that you found this.  The Ortssippenbuch for Altlussheim says he was Johann Marcus Schwechheimer, born in 1727, wife Anna Barbara Krieger, went in 1760 over Denmark to Lettland and died in Hirschenhof in 1787.  I am not descended from him either, although maybe all Schwechheimers are related somehow.  Another uncommon name.

It’s a shame that the church books from Slesvig-Holsten are not online.  Not even on familysearch.

Thank you for all the help with this.  It has been very interesting and educational!

Lisa P.
Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #48 Dato: 14 Mar 2019 - 22:58 »

Citat fra: Lisa Petersen [51781

Thank you for all the help with this.  It has been very interesting and educational!

Lisa P.


It's certainly been interesting and also very educational for me  Smiley

I might have another breakthrough.
After seeing that he was in Nysted in the 1660-1670's I thought it worth trying to take a look in Christian V's Matrikel of 1688 which is based on the Markbøger of 1681-1683.

The ones for Ålholm Amt [earlier Ålholm Len, then Ålholm Amt from 1662, then from 1793 Maribo Amt] is here.
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/index.php?type=matrikel&n1=Maribo&n2=Musse

I think I actually found him from Opslag 40-43.
It really seems like (in my eyes) that it is written "Hendrich Skÿllermand"; right page, top left here for example page 42.
See: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=126163&side=42

So if it is him it means he is still alive around 1681-83 and actually does own some significant areas as it comprises several pages.

Maybe you or Grethe can read it with greater proficiency than me.
« Sidste ændring: 14 Mar 2019 - 23:10 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #49 Dato: 15 Mar 2019 - 12:51 »

Hej Niels and Lisa

Yes it is Hendrich Skøllermand who has some land in -or just around Nysted village/Town.
I cannet say how much, but I beleive it is around 3-4 tønder hartkorn. and sorry Lisa i don't know what it is in english. With the "hartkorn" it doesen't means that the land is meassured up in ex. meters or yards, but how many barrels of god corn they can cultivate.
All the numbers in this book are meassure numbers for "alen" maybe its called cubit in english. But i cannot convert that for neither english yards or danish tønder. so if you want that you have to ask here.  

And the book which is online is the workbook, the final land register came in 1686-89 and is not in the net. maybe in familysearch???

But Hendrich lives in the village Nysted among all the others villagers and he has land for his horses, and also for some animals and vegetabels I think.  He has also 2 small pieces -se page 43 at the end - which I think he uses for grass and hay cultivating. He shall pay 1½ læs -waggon corn (unmilled) to the castle for "rent". He is appointed of the nobleman to aalholm castle as bailiff.
In that job he had to be able to read and write. He should increase taxes, inroll soldiers, support at deaths among others "skiftedokumenter", and look forward that the farmers took care of the farm, look for run-away farmers and others etc. He didn't take part in the common work among the farmers or employes at the castle.  Maybe he has bought his own house in the village- it's possible to look in "Sjællandsfar landsting" to see if he has. Or maybe there was an landsting in Lolland-falster at that time.........

And then we know he must have died from 1683-1706 or moved away maybe got a new job or was dismissed from the old one, but he was a costumer (tolder)  in the end of the 1670ties, so we know he was able to understand german.

Has just looked it up:

For Lolland-Falster we have:
Lollandsfars landstingsbog 1665-1675
Justitsprotokol 1697-1805  -could be important.
Skøde- og panteprotokoller og register 1673-1805- her we can find bying and selling of houses, auctions and more

I don't think they are in the net- but maybe by familysearch.org.
.

mvh
Grethe
« Sidste ændring: 15 Mar 2019 - 12:54 af Grethe Leerbech [814] » Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #50 Dato: 15 Mar 2019 - 16:19 »

ej Lisa

I found a dokument in Lollandsfars landsting, skøde- og panteprotokoller , 1684- 1700
opslag no 10:

Hendrich Schyllermand lader oplæse hands bestalling Brev paa Tolderiod+ sammesteds. 1684 d. 27 november (paa den anden landstingsdag)

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17134261#270929,51530868

"Hendrich Schüllermand let his letter from the king, with the allowance to become a costumer in Nysted, read in the Landsting". and then the letter is transcripted with the condition of his job. So he became Royal ordinated as Costumer and left his job in Aalholm castle as bailif in 1684. I cannot find any more dokuments about him, so he hasn't bought or sold land or house.

mvh
Grethe


Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #51 Dato: 16 Mar 2019 - 14:24 »

Hej Lisa

Just to inform you, that this mentioned portal is going to put all the chuchbooks in germany online. But you have to be a member of it and pay. at this time you can see what churchbooks they allready have. Schleswig-Holstein is the last one at the list at left. But of course it is in german. But also i who have german ancestors are looking forward to the books.  I think it is word to hide this link

 http://www.kirchenbuchportal.de/index.html

mvh
Grethe
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #52 Dato: 16 Mar 2019 - 21:02 »

Hej Niels

Thanks for finding some information about Hendrich Skÿllermands land!  I agree it is his name, and a good addition to the collection of information about the Schøllermands in Nysted.

Grethe,

I don’t think there is a good way to convert Danish hartkorn to English land area.

Thanks for the link to Hendrich Schullermand’s record of his appointment as customs officer!  I wouldn’t think to find this in the deeds.  The date fits all right with what I found in the church records (below).

Thanks very much for the link to the German archives!  The price is ok.  I could spend a lot of time there because I have so many German ancestors.  I wonder how well the image viewer and web site work?  AO is fantastic.  I will have to think about this……..

QUESTION — how do you find the estate (gods) a parish belonged to?  Åle belonged to Bjerre gods, I know.  What about Bække, Anst herred, Ribe amt?  Abild near Tønder?  And Nysted?

I went through the Nysted church records looking for Schyllermands.  Of course there are the children’s baptisms, marriages and deaths to find, but also many times, Hendrich, Barbara, Kirsten and their daughters are sponsors for other children.  I could also get some information on Hendrich’s occupation.  Sometimes his occupation is mentioned, sometimes just first name and occupation, sometimes no occupation. 

Summary of what I learned:

in the baptisms 1662-1708, Ridefogeden Hendrich Sköllermand first appears in 1667, Tolderen Hindrich Sküllermand last appears in 1702, he has 7 children, and is sponsor for over 30 children.  Between 1673 and 1676, Gunder Gundersøn becomes Ridefoged and Hendrich Schullermand is Tolder by 1681 at the latest.  I think I found his death on 3 Jun 1703,
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117513#154234,25724514

wife Barbara first appears in 1668, and last appears in 1670
wife Kirsten first appears in 1672, and last appears in 1698
the marriages are very hard to read due to (I think) water damage to the church books
daughter Sophia Amalia married Christopher Hanssøn Lössholt on 2 Nov 1690
daughter Barbara married Thomas Weimar on 3 Jul 1697
the daughters Sophia Amalia, Barbara and Ide Øllegaard appear many times as sponsors at children’s baptisms
I never saw the sons Friderich, Simon or Peder mentioned

The son Peder is the right age (born in 1673) to be Peter Schøllermand in Åle and maybe Henrich Schøllermand in Bække.  No proof yet.

I will look at more indexes & records tonight. 

Thanks,

Lisa P.
Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #53 Dato: 17 Mar 2019 - 12:42 »

Hi Lisa

Yes thats Hendrichs dead you have found. it says.

3. Juni Hendrich Zolder, and the guild has carried him ( his coffin)

About the manors and their farmers, its difficult.
Normaly the farms laid around the manor in the nearest parishes. Often the mannor also owned the churches, have builded them too. But the King also owned land - and especially in Sønderjylland in the ridersoldiers district, as you ancestors lived in. 
But then the noblemen often got land from other parishes and spread around  from their marriage, from inheritage, and  bought etc.  So it's a really hard question to answer.

I have tried to look for Tønder amt to see what mannors and castle lies there, but my advice to you is.

1. Ask here Inger Burchhard she is specialised in Sønderjylland and Schleswig-Holstein. I think you can find her mail here, or do it openly write her name in the heading line, together with a short summarized sentence of the question ex. Mannors and castle in sønderjylland/Schelswig-Holstein- do it in the "opslag i bøger og arkiver2 eller Slægtsforskning-metode og teknik" .

2. Mail Sønderjyllands rigsarkiv , Aabenraa: mailbox@sa.dk . I am sure they are able to help you

I know whe have so called "jordebøger", from that time. I myself work with them but in nord Jylland , I have no experience for Sønderjylland, but can tell you that  there was a Landsting (County) for Schleswig-Holstein, but maybe the jordebøger for Sønderjylland shall be found in Viborg Landsting .

Jordebøger are summaries of all the farms and the farmers name and also over the mannors/castles a nobleman owned. They are done as an inventory to the king how much tax the differetn farmers and citisens should pay, and when the nobleman sold some of his farms or took loans in the land.

I am sure that Aabenraa know where there are jordebøger about Åle, Bække  etc. But they are awfully to read, because they often are written very close in small letters and not systematically noted.

About the sons. Hendrich in Nysted didn't have any farm land so his sons should either have an education as priests, clerks etc, or as craftsmen, or go the military way. They could also be so lucky to marry a woman with land.  I think his house belonged to the occupation -i. e. the King and the small land he has was sold by his dead. May one could find his "skifte" So I am nearly sure that the sons didn't stay in Nysted and if they were not lucky in getting a job at the administration or to be educated as craftsmen they went the military way.

Grethe

.
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #54 Dato: 17 Mar 2019 - 17:44 »

Citat fra: Lisa Petersen [51781

in the baptisms 1662-1708, Ridefogeden Hendrich Sköllermand first appears in 1667, Tolderen Hindrich Sküllermand last appears in 1702, he has 7 children, and is sponsor for over 30 children.  Between 1673 and 1676, Gunder Gundersøn becomes Ridefoged and Hendrich Schullermand is Tolder by 1681 at the latest.  I think I found his death on 3 Jun 1703,
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117513#154234,25724514

wife Barbara first appears in 1668, and last appears in 1670
wife Kirsten first appears in 1672, and last appears in 1698
the marriages are very hard to read due to (I think) water damage to the church books
daughter Sophia Amalia married Christopher Hanssøn Lössholt on 2 Nov 1690
daughter Barbara married Thomas Weimar on 3 Jul 1697
the daughters Sophia Amalia, Barbara and Ide Øllegaard appear many times as sponsors at children’s baptisms
I never saw the sons Friderich, Simon or Peder mentioned

The King had before used vassals to administrate his holdings (Ålholm belonged to the King), but after the introduction of Absolutist Monarchy in 1660, the Amter was governed by civil servants hired by the King.
A special case is Lolland were the Royal len-holdings from 1525 were given as "livgeding" (life estate) to the widower queens as a way to giving them sufficient funds to keep a worthy lifestyle.  

Apparently some of these civil servants of Ålholm Amt (after 1662) lived in Nykøbing; in their own holdings and in the case for Henrich Schöllermann in Nysted.

So it is very possible that Henrich Schöllermann arrive in 1667 (or slightly earlier) to take a position as Ridefoged he was hired as.
The question is whether he was appointed by the King or the widower queens could themselves control he they wanted to run the estates.

Since it was the Ridefoged who oversaw the "fæste"-changes and taxes, he must appear with signature in such cases between 1667-1673 if these documents are preserved.

Marriage of Christian V with Charlotte Amalie of Hessen-Kassel in Nykøbing Castle on Falster the 25th of June 1667.
Charlotte Amalie received Nykøbing Castle and the royal holdings in Lolland & Falster as her "Livgeding". [unclear if already at the marriage or when (if) she became a widow]
She was a calvinist (and stayed calvinist after the marriage) and a queen who learned to speak Danish, which was basically unheard of in those times.
She was an extremely succesfull entrepreneur, who expanded her holdings vastly throughout her life.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Amalie_of_Hesse-Kassel  

So marriage the same year 1667 as Henrich Schöllermann appears in the church books?
Could one get the idea of was a Queen's man? Perhaps even one from Hessen-Kassel?
« Sidste ændring: 17 Mar 2019 - 17:52 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #55 Dato: 17 Mar 2019 - 18:25 »

Sadly the following sources are not online, but these could probably be the ones to find more about Henrich Schöllermann.

Ålholm og Maribo Klosters Amtstue:
Jordebog over Ålholm Amt 1692.
Skifteprotokol 1698-1711. [as his death was in 1703]
See lists: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskabers_arkivserier?a=Aalholm&b=&c=&d=1600&e=2000&f=&g=&h=&ngid=778150&ngnid=778154&heid=&henid=&epid=&faid=&meid=&m2rid=&side=&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed=

It seems that fæsteprotokoller are first preserved from 1723, so no way to check when his signature as a ridefoged first appeared.

EDIT: I found them on family search.

Skifteprotokol for Ålholm 1698-1711 is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L97C-PCY4?i=3&cc=2015318&cat=486167

It seems this protocol is specifically for "Ridefogeden", but it sadly only goes back to 1698 and Henrich Schöllermann had stopped being the Ridefoged in 1673.

It also jumps from a skifte in 1700 (page 23) to October 1703 (page 26), which is also quite unfortunate.
« Sidste ændring: 17 Mar 2019 - 18:49 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Grethe Leerbech [814]
Medlem

Beskeder: 771




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #56 Dato: 18 Mar 2019 - 10:53 »

Hej Lisa

I don't know if the Skøllermands in Aalholm is of interest to you, but I have found a Friederich Skøllermand in Norway (391) in the Navneregister Bind XXXVII fra Norske Slekstforskere forening . And I think it could be Hendrich Tolders eldest son who went to Norway.
In the register it is page 482. It refers to some magasins the union makes, and I am sure that you can get informations about it if you writes to the union Norske slektsforskere .

http://old.genealogi.no/nst_reg/navnereg_bd_37_41/files/nst_37_41.pdf

mvh
Grethe
Logget

Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #57 Dato: 19 Mar 2019 - 00:35 »

Hej Grethe

I think you are right about the Friderich Skøllermand in Norway.  The title of the article is "Privatansatte tollbetjenter i Norge i dansketiden."  Thank you for finding that.  I found the author on a web page so I might send him an email.

Hej Niels

I could not find Hendrich or Kirsten in the Aalholm skifteprotokol, and I looked for 2-3 months after their deaths.

I have also been looking through military indexes on AO but not finding any Skøllermands.

I think I will review all the information I have and look for any clues I may have missed and try again.

Thank you both for all the help with this.

Lisa P.
Logget
Lisa Petersen [51781]
Bruger

Beskeder: 174




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #58 Dato: 19 Mar 2019 - 18:27 »

I think you are right about the Friderich Skøllermand in Norway.  The title of the article is "Privatansatte tollbetjenter i Norge i dansketiden."  Thank you for finding that.  I found the author on a web page so I might send him an email.

The author says Friderich Skøllermand was employed by Norwegian merchants as a customs officer in Trondheim in 1696-1698.  It must be Friderich, son of Hendrich in Nysted.

Lisa P.
Logget
Niels Just Rasmussen [56358]
Bruger

Beskeder: 146




Print enkelt indl�g
« Svar #59 Dato: 19 Mar 2019 - 18:30 »

Nysted Byfoged Justitsprotokol (1653-1919):

24. Februar 1673.
Hendrich Schüllermann paa ?hendes? Kongelige Majestæts Enkedronningens ?vegne?....etc
Source (p. 260, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20651493#315647,64735116

So he does seem to be in service of the Widower-queen! This must be part of his Ridefoged responsibility.

The widower-queen at the time was Sophie Amalie of Brunswick-Lüneburg (24 March 1628 – 20 February 1685), who had been married to King Frederik III (18 March 1609 – 9 February 1670).

Since Henrich Schöllermann and wife was not to be found in Ålholm domænegods skifter maybe he could be in the skifter at Nysted Byfoged 1667-1919. These are not online though.
Source: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivserie_detaljer?a=&b=&c=nysted&d=1&e=2016&f=&g=&h=&ngid=786211&ngnid=786217&heid=2197436&henid=2197436&epid=&faid=&meid=&m2rid=&side=&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed=
« Sidste ændring: 19 Mar 2019 - 18:46 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] » Logget
Sider: 1 [2] 3
  Udskriv  
 
Gå til: