Christian Andresen Fries/Friis

Barbara Dobson · 14 Jul 2013 - 07:05

I am looking for information about Christian Andresen Fries (or Friis) who came from Rangstrup. Possibly born around 1800, had an illegitimate child Johann Peter Andresen Fries/Friis b. 1827 Hostrup.
I've been unable to find out what county Rangstrup is in, so my own searches of the Danish archives has been futile.
an anyone help?
Thanks
Barbara
NZ

David Peterson · 14 Jul 2013 - 07:53

Barbara:

Krabsen's place database (http://www.krabsen.dk/stednavnebase/) reports that there is a village called Rangstrup in the parish of Agerskov in the county/amt of Haderslev.

To better formulate a search plan, it always helps to know what is the source of these names, places and years. You have to make different considerations about the spelling and the year range if they did not come from Danish documents.
Also it would help to know if these people are connected to any known person in Denmark. Danish parish records put more emphasis on identifying the mother of an illegitimate child than they do on the father.

David Peterson

John Wrenholt · 14 Jul 2013 - 08:38

I believe that Rangstrup could refer to a town located in the parish of Agerskov in the county of Haderslev. Looking in the 1801 census there, I found a Christen Andersen Friis. His birth is recorded in the parish churchbook 1769-1814 Agerslov, Norre Rangstrup, Haderslev ops 35. You can find his confirmation record in the same churchbook ops 173.

In the 1815-1838 Agerskov, Norre Rangstrup, Haderslev ops 107, no 18, it is recorded that in 1826, a 32-year-old Christen Andersen Friis moved to another parish. I can't make out the name of the parish that he moved to.

He is the closest match that I could locate. I do not know if he is the person that you are seeking!

Haderslev, Nørre Rangstrup, Agerskov, Tentelbierg, , , 31, FT-1801
Anders Pedersen   36   Gift   huus bonde   huusmand med Jord. Underst: af S.
Maren Christiansdatter   33   Gift   hans Kone
Birthe Mari Friis   8      deres Børn
Christen Friis   7      deres Børn
Lehne Mari Friis   5      deres Børn
Margaretha Friis   1      deres Børn

Inger Buchard · 14 Jul 2013 - 09:59

He moved to Burkal, Tønder county; Hostrup would then be Hostrup between Burkal and Tønder - take a look at the parish map of Tønder county at
http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kipkort/kort/tond1845.gif

Inger

John Wrenholt · 14 Jul 2013 - 23:37

Could this be the mother's family? In her birth record in Aug 1797, she is called Ann Margrethe Conrads (1761-1826 Burkal, Slogs, Tønder ops 219, no. 21)

Tønder, Slogs, Burkal, Dorf Quernholz, , , 2, FT-1803
Peter Conrad Johannsen   46   Gift   Mann   Käthner mit Land
Ellen Conradi   44   Gift   dessen Frau
Sinnet M. Johannsen   12      ihre Kinder
Conrad Johannsen   10      ihre Kinder
Andreas Johannsen   7      ihre Kinder
Anna Mar. Johannsen   5      ihre Kinder
Johann Johannsen   2      ihre Kinder

Barbara Dobson · 16 Jul 2013 - 03:05

Thanks - this has given me something to work on. The alternative spelling might explain why I've been unable to find him.

Citat fra: John Wrenholt Dato 14 Jul 2013 - 08:38
I believe that Rangstrup could refer to a town located in the parish of Agerskov in the county of Haderslev. Looking in the 1801 census there, I found a Christen Andersen Friis. His birth is recorded in the parish churchbook 1769-1814 Agerslov, Norre Rangstrup, Haderslev ops 35. You can find his confirmation record in the same churchbook ops 173.

In the 1815-1838 Agerskov, Norre Rangstrup, Haderslev ops 107, no 18, it is recorded that in 1826, a 32-year-old Christen Andersen Friis moved to another parish. I can't make out the name of the parish that he moved to.

He is the closest match that I could locate. I do not know if he is the person that you are seeking!

Haderslev, Nørre Rangstrup, Agerskov, Tentelbierg, , , 31, FT-1801
Anders Pedersen   36   Gift   huus bonde   huusmand med Jord. Underst: af S.
Maren Christiansdatter   33   Gift   hans Kone
Birthe Mari Friis   8      deres Børn
Christen Friis   7      deres Børn
Lehne Mari Friis   5      deres Børn
Margaretha Friis   1      deres Børn

Barbara Dobson · 16 Jul 2013 - 03:08

I hadn't been able to find Anna Margethe Conrads anywhere either. Perhaps I need some tips for searching the Danish records??
Thanks for your help.

Citat fra: John Wrenholt Dato 14 Jul 2013 - 23:37
Could this be the mother's family? In her birth record in Aug 1797, she is called Ann Margrethe Conrads (1761-1826 Burkal, Slogs, Tønder ops 219, no. 21)

Tønder, Slogs, Burkal, Dorf Quernholz, , , 2, FT-1803
Peter Conrad Johannsen   46   Gift   Mann   Käthner mit Land
Ellen Conradi   44   Gift   dessen Frau
Sinnet M. Johannsen   12      ihre Kinder
Conrad Johannsen   10      ihre Kinder
Andreas Johannsen   7      ihre Kinder
Anna Mar. Johannsen   5      ihre Kinder
Johann Johannsen   2      ihre Kinder

Barbara Dobson · 16 Jul 2013 - 04:39

Can you please tell me where to find this birth record? I can't seem to navigate the ddd.dda.dk website with ease...it is confusing!

Citat fra: John Wrenholt Dato 14 Jul 2013 - 23:37
Could this be the mother's family? In her birth record in Aug 1797, she is called Ann Margrethe Conrads (1761-1826 Burkal, Slogs, Tønder ops 219, no. 21)

Tønder, Slogs, Burkal, Dorf Quernholz, , , 2, FT-1803
Peter Conrad Johannsen   46   Gift   Mann   Käthner mit Land
Ellen Conradi   44   Gift   dessen Frau
Sinnet M. Johannsen   12      ihre Kinder
Conrad Johannsen   10      ihre Kinder
Andreas Johannsen   7      ihre Kinder
Anna Mar. Johannsen   5      ihre Kinder
Johann Johannsen   2      ihre Kinder

Inger Toudal · 16 Jul 2013 - 12:34

Hi Barbara,

The FS site https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark comprises, among others, a guide to digitized Danish records:

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Digitized_Danish_Records_Online_-_Arkivalieronline

The path to finding the birth: http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger, Amt Tønder, (Herred Slogs,) Sogn Burkal, 1761-1826, opslag (image) 219.

The census is from http://ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp. You can consult the maps at http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kipkort/fronta-e.php to see which censuses have been indexed/transcribed.

FS also has a guide to Danish censuses: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark_Census.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal · 16 Jul 2013 - 14:16

The birth of Johann Peter Andresen Fries 13 April 1827 is in Tønder county: Hostrup 1797-1860, opslag 195, no. 11 (there's a Hostrup parish in Ribe county, too).

The map of Danish counties http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kort.htm, where you can click on a county to see the districts (herred) and parishes in that county, is also a useful tool.

Inger T.

Barbara Dobson · 16 Jul 2013 - 23:29

Thanks Inger, this is great but I'm still not sure how to find and open an actual record. Yesterday I was searching on the website, and would get to the page with the parish records listed, but when I clicked the link for the record - say Burkal - it downloaded an aspx file which I then couldn't open!
Is it possible for you to attach the record here?
I'll have a look at the guides on Family Search and see if they help. Thanks again.

Regards
Barbara

Inger Toudal · 17 Jul 2013 - 01:05

Tips from the FS Guide for Arkivalieronline:

- The archives chose to use Java (Sun Microsystems) as the viewer for accessing the digital images. If you do not already have Java on your computer, you can download Java for free at: Java.com.

- Please note that Arkivalieronline tends to work best using the Mozilla Firefox web browser rather than Internet Explorer or Google Chrome.

- You may run into problems with the viewer depending on your operating system.

Inger T.

John Wrenholt · 17 Jul 2013 - 02:16

This is the image you requested. I get the same type of aspx file when I use google chrome as my browser. For me, it works fine with Explorer.

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

Barbara Dobson · 17 Jul 2013 - 05:20

OK! At last I've been able to access the images! Now trying to decipher/interpret/translate is something else again...
Can anyone help translate any of the images? Do birth records show parent's names?

Thanks
Barbara

Inger Toudal · 17 Jul 2013 - 12:32

The record from Burkal parish is in German:

[1797] d 9ten Aug: d 13ten ej:
Ann Margreth Conrads, des Käthners Peter Conrad und Ellen
gebohrene S?? ehel: Tr: auf Quernholdt Feld(?). die
Gevatter: ....

[1797] Born 9th Aug. Baptized 13th same month.
Ann Margreth Conrads, smallholder Peter Conrad's and Ellen
née S?? legitimate daughter at Quernholdt Feld(?).
Witnesses: ....

Best regards,
Inger T.

Barbara Dobson · 18 Jul 2013 - 03:01

Thanks Inger.
So is there a shortcut to searching these records? I am wondering if Ann Margrethe Conrads later married. She had an illegitimate son in 1827, so do I have to just go through all the images for the years after that to try and find a marriage? It's a challenge!

Barbara

Barbara Dobson · 18 Jul 2013 - 03:30

I have found the marriage record!! Very pleased with myself

Now I need a translation please:
It is Tonder, Hostrup parish ops 47, number 11.

It appears Anna Margethe and Christian/Christen were married 2 years after son Johann was born.
I'm thrilled!

So if someone can translate, I'll be even happier.
Cheers
Barbara

Inger Toudal · 18 Jul 2013 - 12:28

Hi Barbara,

No shortcuts, I'm afraid. Censuses are few and far between at that time, especially in Schleswig, and very few church records have been indexed.

But you managed to find the betrothal record 17 Oct. 1829 (Verlobungsregister 1829 at the top of the page). Congratulations!

I'll transcribe the marriage record at the top of opslag 282 in Hostrup 1764-1859 (Tønder county) for you:

Copulations-Register 1829. 1830.
Dom. Adventus.

Dec. den 6.
Chresten Andersen Fries, Dienstknecht in Solderup, ehel. Sohn
des Anders Petersen und der Maren geb. Petersen in Rang-
strup Kirchspiel Agerschou und seine verlobte Braut Anna
Margaretha Conrads in Solderup, ehel. Tochter des weil.
Peter Conrad und der Ellen geb. S?? von Quarnholdt.
Beide Brautleute haben die natürlichen Blattern gehabt
laut Atteste von Rangstrup d. 22 Sept. 1826 und von Lund d. 31 Nov.
1829.

Dec. 6th. [1829]
Chresten Andersen Fries, farmhand in Solderup, legitimate son
of Anders Petersen and Maren née Petersen in Rang-
strup, Agerschou parish, and his betrothed bride Anna
Margaretha Conrads in Solderup, legitimate daughter of the deceased
Peter Conrad and Ellen née S?? from Quarnholdt.
Both groom and bride have had the natural smallpox
according to certificates from Rangstrup 22 Sept. 1826 and from Lund 31 Nov.
1829.

Lund is a place name in Burkal parish.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Inger Toudal · 18 Jul 2013 - 12:46

I managed to find their son Johann Peter in the 1845 census:

Tønder, Slogs, Hostrup, Dorf Hostrup, , Pastorhaus, 1, FT-1845
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Occupation in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
C.M. Hoeck   66    Verheir.      Prediger   Assit
Anna Schmidt   59    Verheir.      Seine Frau   Tondern
Balzer Schmidt Hoeck   30    Unverheir.      Ihre Kinder. die Söhne treiben die Landwirthschaft für den Vater   Enge
Christian Peter Hoeck   28    Unverheir.      Ihre Kinder. die Söhne treiben die Landwirthschaft für den Vater   Enge
Johanna Dorothea Hoeck   23    Unverheir.      Ihre Kinder. die Söhne treiben die Landwirthschaft für den Vater   Heldewadt
Christian Christiansen   24    Unverheir.      Dienstboten   K. Hoist
Morten Christensen   28    Unverheir.      Dienstboten   Görring
Jens Boisen   40    Unverheir.      Dienstboten, erhält Unterstützung aus der Armencasse   Mögeltondern
Johann Pet. Andr. Friis   18    Unverheir.      Dienstboten   K. Hostrup
Cacorlie Christiansen   28    Unverheir.      Dienstboten   K. Lügum
Johanna Maria Lorenzen   25    Unverheir.      Dienstboten

Inger T.

Barbara Dobson · 19 Jul 2013 - 07:02

Thanks Inger, you're a great help!
So ops 47 is like the engagement notice? Would you mind translating that for me as well?
I had previously found Johann in the 1845 census (my great great grandfather) but can't find him anywhere else. Now I'm wondering if Christen and Anna had more children...
In case you're interested. Johann and his wife and children emigrated to New Zealand in 1875...which is where I am now!
We visitied Hostrup and Solderup in May this year - that was very special.

Thanks again
Barbara

Barbara Dobson · 19 Jul 2013 - 07:26

Hi John
Why would she be called Johannsen here, but Conrads later? Any ideas?
Also, in the other one you found - Haderslev, 1801, father's name is Anders Petersen, mother is Christiansdatter - so where has Friis come from?
I obviously have much to learn about Danish records...
Thanks for your help.
Barbara

Citat fra: John Wrenholt Dato 14 Jul 2013 - 23:37
Could this be the mother's family? In her birth record in Aug 1797, she is called Ann Margrethe Conrads (1761-1826 Burkal, Slogs, Tønder ops 219, no. 21)

Tønder, Slogs, Burkal, Dorf Quernholz, , , 2, FT-1803
Peter Conrad Johannsen   46   Gift   Mann   Käthner mit Land
Ellen Conradi   44   Gift   dessen Frau
Sinnet M. Johannsen   12      ihre Kinder
Conrad Johannsen   10      ihre Kinder
Andreas Johannsen   7      ihre Kinder
Anna Mar. Johannsen   5      ihre Kinder
Johann Johannsen   2      ihre Kinder

Inge Nissen · 01 Aug 2013 - 10:42

Hi Barbara

In the old churchbooks children were christened only with a first name, the last name was given (a patronum): Anders Petersen's sons were called XX Andersen (the son of Anders) and the daughters were called XX Andersdatter (the daughter of Anders).

Patronyms were the most used kind of surname in Denmark until 1828, when a church order was sent out to limit the use of patronyms. But people did not understand that Anders Petersen's children (both sons and daughters) should be called Petersen, as if they sons of Anders´ father.
So the law was not always followed.

Anyhow, in 1856 a law was passed, which "froze" all family names. In the countryside the resistance towards the new law was extensive, so patronyms were still used until the late 1800s, but the tradition gradually faded away.

The southern part of Jutland, belonged to the duchy of Slesvig, here a name law was given already 1771, not to use the fathers name, but the familyname. People did not like it, and here it was common to give the sons 2 last names, so Anders Petersen's sons was called XX Andersen Petersen.

In the churchbooks a married woman was often referred to as the wife of her husband, so f.ex. Marie Andersdatter, married to Jacob Petersen was called Marie Jacobs. Or just as Jacob Petersen´s wife, without her first name. So Peter Conrad Johannsens wife was called Ellen Conradi in the census 1803, because she was married to a man called Conrad. I do not think Conradi was her maiden name.

Inge