Need translation of attached birth record for Peder Christian Michelsen, son of unmarried Ane Nielsdatter (Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev 1814-1845, opslag 32):
Who are the others listed, is the alleged father named?
[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Hi Homer
I read it like this:
Moderen, Ugift Ane Nielsdatter
Hjemme hos som Moder Karen Degn
I Tørslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder??
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Tørslev
Udlagt Michel Pedersen Re??
Møller paa Ørnstrup Mølle ( ?? gift)
The meaning is that :
Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder?? (his Brother)
Jens Nielsen Pedersen
is witness when the father is pronounced
Could Michel Pedersen's last name be Reesen/Resen, as I remember having met/seen this name in the Thisted area.
Lissa
Citat fra: Lis B. Jensen Dato 24 Apr 2013 - 21:13
Hi Homer
I read it like this:
Moderen, Ugift Ane Nielsdatter
Hjemme hos som Moder Karen Degn
I Tørslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder??
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Tørslev
Udlagt Michel Pedersen Re??
Møller paa Ørnstrup Mølle ( ?? gift)
The meaning is that :
Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder?? (his Brother)
Jens Nielsen Pedersen
is witness when the father is pronounced
Thanks Lis; does that mean the father has not "been pronounced"?
And is Karen Degn mother of Ane Nielsdatter?
(Peder Christian Michelsen and descendants are later recorded as 'Mikkelsen Degn' sometimes with Degn in parentheses)
Hi Homer
Yes - Karen Degn mother of Ane Nielsdatter.
It Means that the to men mentionend confirms the announcement of the father.
http://translate.google.com/#en/da/ - gives this trnaslation:
The mother, married Ane Nielsdatter
At home with her Mother Karen Degn
In Tørslev. As a child father was in
To observe the Gaardmand Soren
Pedersen Oringaard and his brother?
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, both of Tørslev
Zoned Michel Pedersen Re?
Moller on Ørnstrup Mill (? Married)
a od translation - but I Hope it makes sence?
This must be the family in 1845:
thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev bye, , Et huus, 34, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 62 Ugift Dagleierske Jørdsby Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 37 Ugift Hendes datter Heri sognet
Ferdinand Otto Poulsen 11 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet
Peter Christian Michelsen 9 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet
Niels Andreas Johansen 3 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet
Søren Christian Johansen 2 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet
And here in 1850:
thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev By, , Et hus, 5, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 67 Ugift Huseierinde Jørsby sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 42 Ugift Hendes datter Her i sognet
Peder Christian Mikkelsen 14 Ugift Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
Niels Andreas Johansen 8 Ugift Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
Søren Christian Johansen 7 Ugift Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
And in 1855:
thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev by, , Et huus, 18, FT-1855
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 72 Ugift Huuseierinde, huusmoder Jordsby
Ane Nielsdatter 47 Ugift Hendes datter, dagleierske Her i sognet
Niels Andr. Johansen 13 Ugift Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
Søren Chr. Johansen 12 Ugift Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
And in 1860:
thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev by, , Et huus, 17, FT-1860
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 77 Ugift Huuseierinde Jordsby
Ane Nielsdatter 52 Ugift Hendes datter Her i s.
Lissa
So is the indication that Michel Pedersen the miller of Ørnstrup was the father?
Would this be the Ørnstrup of Torsted, Vejle?
Michel was just a hand. The parentheses reads: NB, gift Mand, Nota bene, married man.
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Rakkeby, Rachebye, en gaard og mølle, F4, FT-1834, B6223
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Christensen 42 Gift Gaardmand og møller
Zidsel Jensdatter 42 Gift hans kone
.............
Niels Sørensen 21 Ugift Tjenestekarl
Michel Pedersen 28 Gift betjente ved møllen
He's married, but his wife isn't here, and he may already be estranged.
Thanks Lis, Lissa, and Ralph! Looks like the origin of Peder Christian Michelsen Degn's two surnames is confirmed.
And, Ørnstrup mill was apparently in nearby Rakkeby parish, not in Vejle.
Ørndrup is about 10 km. WSW of Frøslev. A second look at the record confirms that spelling.
Citat fra: Ralph Rasmussen Dato 25 Apr 2013 - 00:57
Ørndrup is about 10 km. WSW of Frøslev. A second look at the record confirms that spelling.
- and in Karby parish, next west of Rakkeby.
Thanks again Ralph. I envy your skill with the old handwriting.
Citat fra: Ralph Rasmussen Dato 24 Apr 2013 - 23:47
Michel was just a hand. The parentheses reads: NB, gift Mand, Nota bene, married man.
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Rakkeby, Rachebye, en gaard og mølle, F4, FT-1834, B6223
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Christensen 42 Gift Gaardmand og møller
Zidsel Jensdatter 42 Gift hans kone
.............
Niels Sørensen 21 Ugift Tjenestekarl
Michel Pedersen 28 Gift betjente ved møllen
He's married, but his wife isn't here, and he may already be estranged.
Michel may have just been "almost" married:
FamilySearch lists marriage at Frøslev 23 March 1834 of Michel Pedersen born 19 Feb 1805 to Ane Elsabeth Christensdatter born 25 Jan 1810.
This may be Ane in the Frøslev census,18 Feb 1834:
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Aandrup by, , En gaard, 43, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Niels Christian Jensen 39 Ugift Gaardmand
Else Jensdatter 50 Ugift Hans søster, huusholderske
Peder Christian Olesen 32 Gift Tjenestekarl (Konen er tilhuse i et Huus i Outrup Sogn)
Michel Jensen Trælborg 37 Gift Tjenestekarl (Konen beboer et Huus i Tødsøe Sogn)
Niels Christian Melsen 18 Ugift Tjenestedreng
Ane Elisabeth Christensdatter 25 Ugift Tjenestepige Ane Marie Christensdatter 15 Ugift Tjenestepige
Ah, the thin line between engaged and married, especially in the eighteenth century. The census taker would have been following tradition.
Moderen, ugift Ane Nielsdatter
hjemme hos sin Moder Karen Degn
i Frøslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Overgaard og dennes Broder
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Frøslev,
udlagt: Michel Pedersen Redsted
Møller paa Ørndrup Mølle (NB gift Mand)
The child was, in the presence of farmer SPO and his brother JNP, both of Frøslev, fathered on: MPR
The marriage record 1834 is on opslag 116 in Frøslev 1814-1845. The groom is said to be living with his father Peder Michelsen in Eerslev. Michel Dahlgaard, 29, ugift, is seen in the 1834 census for Erslev, Morsø Nørre. Here with wife and children:
Thisted, Morsø Nørre, Galtrup, Tøving bye, Et Huus, 13, FT-1850, B2402
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Michel Pedersen Dahlgaard 45 Gift Husmand. husfader Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Elisabeth Christensen 40 Gift Hans kone Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Christen Michelsen Dahlgaard 15 Ugift Deres børn Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Anders Christian Michelsen Dahlgaard 10 Ugift Deres børn Frøslev sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Michelsen 7 Ugift Deres børn Her i sognet
Niels Christian Michelsen 4 Ugift Deres børn Her i sognet
Jens Christian Michelsen 1 Ugift Deres børn Her i sognet
So he's not the fellow you're looking for.
The 1840 census For Morsø Nørre and Morsø Sønder has been lost. This could be the alleged father in later censuses:
Name: Michel Pedersen Age: 39 Marital status: Gift
Occupation: Møllerkarl Birth place: Skjoldborg Thisted amt
Census year: FT-1845 County: Thisted District: Refs Parish: Hvidbjerg Place name: Hovedgaarden Hindsels
Name: Michel Pedersen Sex: M Age: 43 Marital status: Gift
Occupation: Møllerkarl, boer ellers paa ? Birth place: Skjoldborg, Th A
Census year: FT-1850 County: Thisted District: Refs Parish: Hvidbjerg Place name: Styvl Bye
Title no /address: Hindsels Hovedgaard
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Nees by, , Neessunds færgegaard, 9, FT-1855
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Pedersen 49 Gift Færgekarle Skjoldborg sogn, her i amtet
- - - - -
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Karby by, , En gaard, 23, FT-1860
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Pedersen 54 Gift Tjenestekarl Skjoldborg s., Thisted amt
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Agger, , Gaardfæster, 11, FT-1870
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Møller 64 Gift Tjenestekarl Skjoldborg, Thisted amt
- - - - -
- always living apart from his wife! Perhaps Møller in the birth record is a byname?
He was born 4 Nov. 1806 (Skjoldborg, Hundborg, Thisted 1764-1835, opslag 111 at the top). His parents:
Thisted, Hundborg, Skjoldborg, Nørre Skioldborg Bye, , 18, FT-1801, b6099
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Peder Nielsen Skadholm 55 Gift huusbonde bonde og gaardbeboer
Maren Nielsdatter 32 Gift hans kone
Else Marie Pedersdatter 16 Ugift hans børn
Christen Pedersen 10 Ugift hans børn
This could be the mother of Peder Christian Michelsen:
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Agger Bye, , Et hus, 4, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Niels Nielsen 62 Gift Inderste og aftægtsmand
Inger Jensdatter 56 Gift Hans kone [Niels Nielsen]
Anne Nielsdatter 26 Ugift Plejedatter [Niels Nielsen, Inger Jensdatter]
Best regards,
Inger Toudal
Thanks Inger, coincidence of names is so common in Danish records.
Ane Nielsdatter was a busy lady -
Ane's mother in 1834:
Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev, , Et huus, 13, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter 51 Ugift Væverske
Niels Michelsen 13 Ugift Hendes søn
Niels Peder Christensen 5 Ugift Hendes dattersøn [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 19]
In 1845:
thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev bye, , Et huus, 34, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 62 Ugift Dagleierske Jørdsby Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 37 Ugift Hendes datter Heri sognet
Ferdinand Otto Poulsen 11 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 29]
Peter Christian Michelsen 9 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 32]
Niels Andreas Johansen 3 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 38]
Søren Christian Johansen 2 Ugift Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 40]