Translation help for arrival list, please

[Linda Vixie]

Attached is a clip from an arrival list in Lendum sogn, Hjoerring, last two entries for 1867 (p. 191)

It shows:

Kristine Vilhelmine Nielsdatter, age 20 1/2
Niels Peter Jensen, age 32 1/2

They were coming from Gaerum parish, and I've found their departures there.

On 30 Jan 1868, Kristine gave birth in Lendum parish to Niels Peter Jensen's illegitimate child, Neils Christian Augustine. Kristine was from Albaek sogn, which this arrival list shows.

I need help reading and translating what it says about Niels Peter Jensen. It's different words from what Kristine's says. He's the one I'm trying to track, and find a birth place for. He was born about 1835.

Thank you very much,

Linda Vixie








[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Linda Vixie]

Attached is a clip from an arrival list in Lendum sogn, Hjoerring, last two entries for 1867 (p. 191)

It shows:

Kristine Vilhelmine Nielsdatter, age 20 1/2
Niels Peter Jensen, age 32 1/2

They were coming from Gaerum parish, and I've found their departures there.

On 30 Jan 1868, Kristine gave birth in Lendum parish to Niels Peter Jensen's illegitimate child, Neils Christian Augustine. Kristine was from Albaek sogn, which this arrival list shows.

I need help reading and translating what it says about Niels Peter Jensen. It's different words from what Kristine's says. He's the one I'm trying to track, and find a birth place for. He was born about 1835.

It may say "Indsidder i [Engpig?]?

Thank you very much,

Linda Vixie

[Mogens Grønberg]

Hi
you are right it says "Indsidder i Engsig"
which means Tenant in Engsig.

[Linda Vixie]

I'm sorry for not being able to read the Danish controls on this site. I was trying to edit my initial post, but ended up repeating it. How can I delete that second post and just edit the first one?

Thank you very much for reading that word Engsig for me.

Thank you,

Linda

[Linda Vixie]

I do see that there is a village Engsig in Lendum parish.

[Mogens Grønberg]

You are can edit your post in 30 minutes from posting it,
and you can't delete it.

[Bente Wanning]

 
Birth of Niels Christian Augustinus Nielsen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=166071#166071,27898653

Sorry, I cannot read the Parish name that Niels Peter Jensen came from. Others that can help???

[Linda Vixie]

Thank you, Bente, for posting a link to that birth record for Niels Peter Jensen's son. I asked about it earlier and got some suggestions, but more eyes on the entry would be good.

Here's the link to the post:

https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,100463.0.html

Maybe it says "Taars sogn"?

The person who read this previous entry though that Niels Peter Jensen was not in Lendum parish when the baby was born in Jan 1868.

In 1870, the census shows two Jensen families living in Haus Engsig, Lendum sogn, but not Niels Peter Jensen.

I have not found him leaving Lendum sogn after 1867.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I read the birth entry as:

Birth: 3. januar 1868
Niels Christian Agustinus Nielsen
Forældre: Ugift Kirstine Vilhelmine, 21 aar, af Albæk
Til barnefader udlagt fraskilt mand Niels Peter Nielsen fordum gaardmand i Mellegaard i Gærum Sogn, bor nu i Fulten(?) i Taars Sogn.
(As father of the child was name a divorced man Niels Peter Jensen, former tenant in Mellegaard i Gærum Parish, now living in Fulten (?) in Taars Parish)
Forældrene .. barnet skal ikke døbes.
(The Parents .. the child should not be baptised
Moderen tjente på 10 måneders dagen før sin nedkomst i Mellegaard i Gærum Sogn
10 months before the birth the mother served in Mellegaard in Gærum Parish

/Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I think, it might say:
Forældrene baptister, barnet skal ikke døbes.
(The Parents are baptists, the child should not be baptised)

[Linda Vixie]

Most interesting, Ellen. Thank you--this adds a lot. I will look for the father in Taars sogn.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

There is a Niels Peter Jensen i the census for 1870 - about the right age:

Hjørring, Børglum, Taars, Taars Svenstrup By, En Gaard, 44, FT-1870, C1837
Navn:     Alder:  Civilstand:     Stilling i husstanden:     Erhverv:     Fødested:
Christian Madsen    46    Gift    Husfader    Jorbruger    Taars Sogn 
Kristiane Nielsen    44    Gift    Husmoder        Taars Sogn 
Else Marie Nielsdatter    21    Ugift    Datter        Taars Sogn 
Niels Christiansen    12    Ugift    Søn        Taars Sogn 
Madsine Marie Christiansen 9    Ugift    Datter        Taars Sogn 
Nikoline Kirstine Christiansen 4    Ugift   Datter        Taars Sogn 
Niels Peter Nielsen    26    Ugift       Tjenstekarl     Taars Sogn 
Jens Andreas Christensen 21    Ugift       Tjenstekarl  Taars Sogn 
Niels Peter Jensen    33    Ugift       Tjenstekarl  Taars Sogn 
Jens Peter Andersen    15    Ugift       Tjenstekarl  Ulæslig 
Catrine Marie Jensen    5    Ugift       Tjenestepige  Ulæslig 
Else Johanne Christinesdatter 14 Ugift       Tjenestepige  Ulæslig 

/Ellen

[Linda Vixie]

Kristine Vilhelmine Nielsen married Kristjan Nielsen in Lendum sogn in 1876.

I just found her marriage record and it says something about "Baptist" over on the right

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17124804#166071,27898784

Thanks for the Taars census entry!

The Niels Peter Jensen we are researching married a woman named Marie Jacobsen and they had one child in Denmark before immigrating to the U.S. about 1872.

From U.S. records, Marie Jacobsen was born 11 Feb 1850. Her father's name was Jacobs (unknown if that is first name or surname) and her mother was named Marie, per her death certificate.

Niels Peter Jensen was born May 1839, per U.S. records, but the 1867 moved in record for Lendrum says he was 32.5, so born about 1835.

The child was probably named Elise M. [Jensen]. She appears in U.S. records as Elise, Eliza, Lizzie, or Elizabeth.

She was a member of the Danish Sisterhood society in America and her records there say she was born 11 Jul 1871 in Hjørring. As she provided this information, it's what she believed. Her tombstone says she was born 1870. I have searched a number of parishes in Hjørring (1869-1872), but so far have not found her. I suppose it's possible she was Marie's child, but not Niel's child.

The illegitimate son born in 1868 came to America when he was an adult and lived very close to his father, Niels Peter Jensen [Johnson and Marie and their children in Iowa.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

The remark at the right says the Bride is Baptist.
It also refers to the law that allows a member of the Danish State Church to marry a person of a different religion.

/Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

There is a Marie Jacobsen born on Februar 11th 1850 in Ugilt Parish, Hjørring.
Parents:
Smallholder Jacob Pedersen and Marie Jensdatter of Lørslevhede.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=171118#171118,28723355
Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Census of 1855:

Jacob Pedersen 41 Gift Huusmand. lever af sin jordlod. huusfader  Her i Sognet 
Maren Jensdatter 37 Gift Hans kone  Raaberg Sogn, Hjørring Amt 
Jens Peter Jacobsen 13 Ugift Deres børn  Her i Sognet 
Christen Martinus Jacobsen 11 Ugift Deres børn  Her i Sognet 
Kirsten Marie Jacobsen 8 Ugift Deres børn  Her i Sognet 
Marie Jacobsen 6 Ugift Deres børn  Her i Sognet 
Christine Jacobsen 2 Ugift Deres børn  Her i Sognet 

/Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Census of 1860:

Jacob Pedersen 48 G Hmd., Dagleier, Huusfader  Her i S. 
Maren Jensdatter 41 G Hans Kone  Raaberg S. 
Kirsten Marie Jacobsdatter 13 U Deres Børn  Her i S. 
Maria Jacobsdatter 10 U Deres Børn  Do [Her i S.] 
Christine Jacobsdatter 7 U Deres Børn  Do [Her i S.] 
Larssine Jacobsdatter 4 U Deres Børn  Do [Her i S.] 

/Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Census of 1870:
Hjørring, Horns, Hørmested, Moien, Gaard, 1, FT-1870, D7173
Andreas Peter Ræbild 37 Gift Huusfader Jordbruger Ugilt S., Hjørring A. 
Hanne Magrethe Mathiesen 24 Gift Huusmoder  Seilstrup S., Hjørring A. 
Niels Jacob Ræbild Under 1 aar Ugift Barn  Hørmested S., Hjørring A. 
Christian Marius Thomsen 28 Ugift Tyende Avlskarl Hørmested S., Hjørring A. 
Peder Christian Pedersen 47 F Tyende Staldkarl Hørmested 
Jens Christian Nielsen 21 Ugift Tyende Andenkarl Elling S., Hjørring A. 
Marius Peter Christensen 21 Ugift Tyende Trediekarl Mosberg S., Hjørring A. 
Janus Christiansen 14 Ugift Tyende Forsørges af fattigvæsenet Hørmested S., Hjørring A. 
Ottine Elisabet Pedersen 25 Ugift Tyende Kokkepige Hørmested S. 
Kirstine Marie Madsen 18 Ugift Tyende Malkepige Hørmested S. 
Marie Jacobsen 20 Ugift Tyende Malkepige Ugilt S., Hjørring A. 
Jensine Caroline Marie Jensen 13 Ugift Tyende Barnepige Hjørring 

[Linda Vixie]

Ellen, what you have found is very, very interesting. It seems to be a perfect match for what we know about Marie Jacobsen who married Niels Peter Jensen and went to Iowa about 1872.

She was confirmed 3 Apr 1864 in Ugift sogn, but in the Taars church. She lived in Lørslev Osterlede. Ugilt does not have afgansliste records for that period, and neither does Hørmested have tilgansliste/afgansliste, so I can't see when she went there or left there.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17127468#171118,28723480 She's #10.

I have looked for a marriage for her to Niels Peter Jensen in Hørmested, Ugilt, and Taars sogns, but haven't found them.

The 1870 census for Niels in Taars sogn is interesting too. It suggests he was born 1837.

I searched Taars parish from 1834-39 and found two men named Niels Peter Jensen who were born there, both in 1837.

1. Niels Peter Jensen b. 7 Jan 1837 to Jens Christen Christensen and Maren Marie Christiansen
2. Niels Peter Martin Jensen, b. 16 Mar 1837 to Ane Jensdtr and Jens Albrectsen

But both of them are still living in Taars sogn in the 1880 census, when our guy is in Iowa.

The first one is not in his parents' household in 1860 or 1870, but they are living with him in 1880.
He might be the one who is in Klarup, Taars in 1860 and the one in Sventrup, Taars, in 1870.

The Niels Peter Martin Jensen usually has the full name in his census records.

So I went back to review what we have on Niels Peter [Johnson, in the U.S.]

His daughter Elizabeth M. says she was born 11 Jul 1871 in Hjørring, and her mother is Marie Jacobsen, born 11 Feb 1850
He fathered an illegitimate son, Niels Christian August, born 30 Jan 1868, Lendum sogn, Hjørring. Mother Christine Vilhelmine Nielsen was in Gaerum sogn about the time he was conceived. Father was working there too, but was said to be in Taars sogn at time of birth. Son later lives 2 miles from his father in Iowa. His descendants say NPJ was NCA's father and Christine Vilhelmine was his mother. I should try to get NCA's death cert to confirm.
NPJ 1880 census, Iowa, age 41 (c. 1839)
NPJ 1885 state census, age 45 (c. 1840)
NPJ 1895 state census, age 55 (c. 1840)
NPJ 1900 census, Iowa, b. May 1839, age 61; immigrated 1872, married 30 years
we don't yet have his death cert or tombstone image; he died in 1903 and the death cert probably won't have parents' names
I haven't found an immigration record for this family

Note: The birth date for the U.S. man (1839) does not match that of the man in Denmark (1835). Neither of the NPJ's born in Taars in 1837 were born in May. U.S. records may not be correct, but his are at least consistent.

Christine Vilhelmine Nielsen, 20.5, and Niels Peter Jensen, 32.5 [b. ca. 1835], come to Lendum sogn from Gaerum sogn, end of 1867:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17124804#166071,27898828

Christine Vilhelmine Nielsen and Niels Peter Jensen leave Gaerum for Lendum. She leaves 4 Nov 1867, he leaves 9 Dec 1867. She was about six months' pregnant then:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17122836#162341,27278115


I was assuming this Niels was the father of Christine's 1868 son. Reasonable or not?

Christine Vilhelmine Nielsen, 19.5, arrives in Gaerum from Horby, 15 Nov 1866:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17122836#162341,27278085

Niels Peter Jensen, 26 [b. c. 1835],  arrives 16 Apr 1861 to Gaerum from Skaeve (?) sogn
[b. 1835]. He looks like the same one who later goes to Lendum.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17122836#162341,27278079

Niels Peter Jensen, 25 (b. c. 1836], leaves Skaeve for Gaerum 8 Apr 1861
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17126280#168902,28362496

I didn't find him in Skaeve in the 1860 census.

None of these in/out records suggest where NPJ was born, correct?

Here's another thought/question: Did men in Denmark during this period [1860s] ever take their father's patronymic surname rather than use the patronymic they had at birth? If so, Niels Peter Jensen may have been born Niels Peter [something else] and his father was a Jensen.

Thank you for considering my research and questions.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hi Linda

I think you should look at this entry:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=168773#168773,28340708

Churchrecords for Sindal Parish Hjørring.
Birth July 11th 1871
Lise Martine Jacobsen
Parents:
Single mother Marie Jacobsen (Nymarken?), 21 1/2 year
Named childfather in Nr. Overgaard

It does not say the name of the father  ,,

/Ellen

[Linda Vixie]

Okay, interesting.... Amazing, actually.

I would not have thought to look on Lise, but it makes sense.

How do you do this?!

Linda

[Linda Vixie]

Does F = divorced? If so, this might be consistent with the man who fathered the child in 1868 in Lendum.

hjoerring, Vennebjerg, Sindal, Heden, Huus, 57, FT-1870, D7022
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Position in household:       Occupation:       Birth place:
Niels Peter Jensen    33    F    Huusfader    Snedker    Dronninglund, Hjørring A.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Yes, F = Fraskilt (Divorced),
But he doesn't seem to be in Dronninglund Parish ..
/Ellen

[Linda Vixie]

Could divorced people marry again in Denmark at this time (1870s)?

If this NPJ was the father of Marie Jacobsen's daughter Lise, and they couldn't marry in Denmark, maybe they went to the U.S. to make a new life.

There is a NPJ, b. ca. 1835 in Dronninglund who is living in Skaeve in the 1855 census.

And it seems I can the NPJ who fathered the 1868 Lendum boy in Skaeve in 1861 (see above). Maybe they are they same man.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Yes, they could. But it would often be a civil marriage.

I also thought they might have married in US, but that's because I think this is Marie in the Emmigrant database:

Navn:  Jacobsen, Marie Stilling:  Hustru
Alder:  22 Bestemmelsessted:  Chicago
Kontrakt nr.:  588300 Forevisningsdato:  24-10-1872
Sidste oph.sogn:  Hjørring Sidste oph. amt:  Hjørring
Sidste oph.sted:  Hjørring Bestemmelses land:  USA
Bestemmelses by:  Chicago Bestemmelses stat:  Illinois
Skibsnavn:  Indirekte
IDkode:  I7273J3103

She is travelling under her maiden name.

/Ellen

[Linda Vixie]

Yes, I think that is her in the immigrant database. Wonderful!

I can look for a marriage in the U.S., but they may have just held themselves out to be married (common law marriage). The 1900 census says they've been married 30 years.

Lise would have been over a year old when her mother immigrated. I will look for them in U.S. ship lists.

There is this Niels Peter Jensen b. 16 May 1835 in Dronninglund, which may be him. (And he's born in May.)


https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17122212#161014,27053301

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Look at the parents names:
Jens Christian Nielsen and Elisabeth Jacobsdatter.

Might explain why Lise became Elisabeth.

/Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

And this might be Niels in the emmigant database.
Last parish in Denmark: Sindal.

Navn:  Jensen, Niels Peter Stilling:  Landmand
Alder:  36 Bestemmelsessted:  Chicago, Ill.
Kontrakt nr.:  207600 Forevisningsdato:  11-04-1872
Sidste oph.sogn:  Sindal Sidste oph. amt:  Hjørring
Sidste oph.sted:  Sindal S. Hjørring A. Bestemmelses land:  USA
Bestemmelses by:  Chicago Bestemmelses stat:  Illinois
Skibsnavn:  Indirekte
IDkode:  I7172J3920

Ellen

[Linda Vixie]

Very nice!

[John Wrenholt]

Possible marriage:

Name    Niels P. Jensen
Spouse's Name   Marie Jacobson
License Type   Marriage
Event Date   10 Mar 1873
Event Place   Cook, Illinois