contorist Jørgen August Jørgensen

Startet af Lisa Petersen, 18 Feb 2016 - 17:16

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Lisa Petersen

Tracing one of my ancestors has been difficult, so I am asking for suggestions. 

Contorist Jørgen August Jørgensen was the alleged father of Christiane Augustine Bjerregaard who was born in Nordby on Fanø on 25 May 1833.  https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17125384#167014,28043879   How do I trace the father, when I only know his name and occupation? 

Here is what I have tried:
no additional information in Christiane Augustine's confirmation, marriage, or death records
he is not in the Nordby til- or afgangslister
he is not in the lægdsruller for Nordby (I need to look at the søruller)
he is not in the index to Nordby skode- og panteprotokoller
he is not in the index to Fanø skifteprotokoller
Nordby arkivet did not have any additional information
Anne Marie Grønnegaard, author of Nordby Slægter, did not have additional information
the DDD has 2 Jørgen August Jørgensens in FT-1845 that could be possibilities, but I'm not sure how I could prove they are or are not the father

The mother was from Fanø, and I assume from all the other information I have about her that she became pregnant on Fanø.  She never married.

Thanks,

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

Peter Kristiansen

This is the mother in FT 1834:

Ribe, Skast, Nordby, Odden 105 Lægd, et Huus som hører til Skolen, 68, FT-1834, C6856
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:    Fødested:
Barbara Marie Sørensdr [Sørensdatter]   40   Ugift      nyder Understøttelse af Fattigvæsenet.   
Hans Sørensen   12   Ugift      } hendes Børn   
Søren Svendsen   9   Ugift      } hendes Børn   
Christiane Augustine Bjerregaard   1   Ugift      } hendes Børn


A woman in her best years....

You say that you have found some possible Jørgen August Jørgensen in the census 1845 - how old are the - can they match her?

Where have you found them - can they be traced to the censuses of 1840 and 1834 ?
M.v.h. Peter Kristiansen

Lisa Petersen

Yes, the ages are about right.  Neither of these are in the DDD in FT-1834 when I search for Jørgen August J%. 

1840 København, København (Staden), Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, Hjortelængen, Huuset nr. 156, 2. Sal, 153 F8, FT-1840, C5130
Jørgen August Jørgensen    39    Gift       Skoemagersvend   
Marie Lovise Fellum    37    Gift       hans Kone   
Magdalene Jørgensen    2    Ugift       deres Datter

1845 København, København (Staden), Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, , Klerkegade 435,1.Sahl, 2, FT-1845, C4015
Maren Larsen    55    Enke       Pention   Wiborg
Torvald Larsen    11          hendes Søn   Kjøbenhavn
Lauritz Larsen    23    Gift       Skomagersvend   Kjøbenhavn
Emilie Chirstine Brant    24    Gift       hans Kone   Kjøbenhavn
Otto Lauritz Larsen    1          deres Søn   Kjøbenhavn
Jørgen August Jørgensen    34    Gift       Skomagersvend   Tystrup
Marie Luise Tellum    42    Gift       hans Kone   Helsingør
Magdalene Andrea Jørgensen    7          deres Datter   Kjøbenhavn

1845 Holbæk, Merløse, Tveje Merløse, Hellestrup by, Arbejdsanstalt ved Holbæk, 19, FT-1845, C3174
Niels Vamberg    41    Gift       Inspektør ved Stiftelsen   Ryslinge sogn Svendborg amt
Ane Marie Elisabeth Vamberg født Hansen    32    Gift       Hans kone   København
Fredrik Christian Vamberg    6    Ugift       Deres søn   Vinter mølle Ka.
Elise Frederikke Henriette Vamberg    4    Ugift       Deres datter   Mørkegaard
Harald Magnus Nicolai Vamberg    2    Ugift       Deres søn   Holbæk
Elise Frederikke Christiane Hansen    26    Ugift       Inspektørens priorginde der afløses af ham   København
Hansine Markusen    19    Ugift       Tjenestepige   Holbæk
Maren Magdalene Nielsdatter    20    Ugift       Tjenestepige   Holmstrup
Jens Rødin Sparvalh    24    Ugift       Opsynsmand   Køge
Niels Jensen    38    Ugift       Opsynsmand   Aagerup
Hans Jørgen Petersen    32    Ugift       Gartner   Liseby på møn
Karen Marie von Vesten    58    Ugift       Gangkone   København
Hans Johansen Lyngberg    65    Gift       Arbejdslem   Vig i Odsherred
Niels Pedersen    32    Ugift       Arbejdslem   Kallundborg
Johanne Marie Fiik    47    Enke       Arbejdslem   Bjergbye
Ole Pedersen    43    Gift       Arbejdslem   Viskinde
Jørgen August Jørgensen    41    Ugift       Arbejdslem   Holbæk
Rasmus Olsen    58    Gift       Arbejdslem   Viskinde
Sidse Christensdatter    38    Ugift       Arbejdslem   Tudse
Karen Marie Rasmusen    11    Ugift       Syg   Asmindrup
Niels Andersen    28    Ugift       Syg   Kundbye
E. Flach    88    Enkemand       Syg   Sveitz
Elisa Andrea Olavia Jensdatter    14    Ugift       Syg   Bjergbye
N. Kastholm    33    Gift       Syg   Undløse
Jens Jensen    34    Ugift       Syg   Sandbye
Else Kirstine Møller    34    Gift       Syg   Sandbye
Jørgen Larsen    46    Ugift       Sindsyg ved det 3. år   Bjergbye
Gotlieb    37    Ugift       Sindsyg ved det 1. år   Finnerup
Kirstine Nielsdatter    51    Enke       Sindsyg ved en mand   Sandbye

Peter Kristiansen

The persons mentioned are not very likely.

Contorist is somebody employed in an office - and probably from a city, not a village in the country.

Could he have been some kind of summer tourist?


M.v.h. Peter Kristiansen

Lisa Petersen

I agree, not very likely.

A summer tourist?  That is an interesting idea, and not one I would have associated with 1833.  I will keep this in mind.

The next thing I was going to try is to look through the lægdsruller for Ribe, 1833 Hovedrulle, for a Jørgen August, son of Jørgen.  I hope he is not from a city, then I will not be able to find him in the lægdsruller.

Was a contorist employed in a government office, or at a private business, or is it impossible to tell?

Verner Bentsen

Could it be Jørgen Jørgensen August ?

Lægdsrulle Horslunde:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481031#17282,740110
Halsted, Horslunde lægd 1, nr C 14, Jørgen f. 7. maj 1795, Ørslykke. Far Jørgen August.

Konfirmation:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=151784#151784,25241203
Jørgen Jørgensen, Jørgen Augusts søn, 14 år.

mvh Verner

Peter Kristiansen

Census 1801:

Maribo, Lollands Nørre, Horslunde, Nÿbÿgt, , 12, FT-1801, B5129
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:    Fødested:
Jørgen August   38   Gift   Husbonde   Bonde og Gaardbeboer   
Kirsten Fredrigsdatter   30   Gift   hans Kone      
Anne Katrine Jørgensdatter   5   Ugift   deres Barn [Jørgen August-Kirsten Ludvigsdatter]      
Sidsel Jørgensdatter   2   Ugift   deres Barn [Jørgen August-Kirsten Ludvigsdatter]      
Jens Henricksen   22   Ugift   Tienestekarl      
Lars Hansen   14   Ugift   Tienestekarl      
Maren Hansdatter   19   Ugift   Tienestepige

Why is little Jørgen not present ??
M.v.h. Peter Kristiansen

Verner Bentsen

I 1801 er Jørgen i Vesterborg

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481031#17282,740110 opslag 35
Halsted TR 1795, lægd 1, nr C14, Horslunde
Jørgen Jørgensen, Jørgen August, f. 7. maj 1795,

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481031#17291,741716
Halsted 1796 D, HR lægd 1 opslag 22. Horslunde
gl nr C!€ nyt 366, Jørgen Jørgensen, far Jørgen August, 1 år
til 14 E 234.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481031#17302,744730
Halsted 1801 J, HR lægd 14 opslag 143, gl nr 234 nyt 121, Lægd Vesterborg
Jørgen 6 år.
Til 1 K 492

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481031#17306,745716 opslag 289
Halsted 1802 K, TR opslag 289, lægd1 nr. K K 492. Horslunde
Jørgen 6 år.

mvh Verner





Verner Bentsen

Nothing in lægdsrullen indicates that Jørgen visited Fanø.
He has been found in Vesterborg, Horslunde, Skovlenge, Ryde, Gloeslunde, Herredskirke.
Deleted 1826, 30 yrs old.

mvh Verner

Lisa Petersen

Verner, thanks for the information about Jørgen, son of Jørgen August.  I did not think August could be a last name.  Maybe there is nothing to indicate he went to Fanø, but I should follow him a little to see if he became a contorist around 1834.   ;)

Today I spent several hours looking at registre over viede og døde from about 50 sogne on arkivalieronline, but I did not find Jørgen August Jørgensen.  I am so happy that many more records are online now, so I will keep working on this and my other difficult problems.

Thanks Verner and Peter.

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

Verner Bentsen

More about Jørgen Jørgensen August
http://www.dis-danmark.dk/forum/read.php?1,77503,77582

Jørgen Jørgensen August died 12. jul 1854 i Nakskov
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=153916#153916,25655509

A link to Jørgen Thygesen Augustsen aka Jørgen August Jørgensen.
How and where was the connection between these men found ? Maybe the owners of the site can tell.
http://www.jorgensenfamilien.dk/133.html

mvh Verner

PS have you found what you are looking for about Cathrine Bruun ?

Lisa Petersen

Thanks for the additional information, Verner.  Still nothing to connect to my Jørgen August Jørgensen.     :(

I found a little more information about Cathrine Bruun.  She is listed twice in the Politiets Registerblade, as Cathrine Bruun and Kathrine Brusen.  Being able to search for only a birth date, helped me find the card with her name spelled wrong.

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1930988&searchname=polit_simple
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1930928&searchname=polit_simple

I found her on the Politiets Mandtaller, working at the Kommuneshospital.  After May 1894, I cannot find her.  I did not find her in the Kbh Begravelsesprotokoller up until 1943.  My next plan was to find locations of hospitals in Kbh in 1901, then look at the FT-1901 to see if she is working at another hospital somewhere.  Her father's probate (Buffalo, New York, 1907) says that Cathrine Bruun was in Kbh in 1907.

Also, the other information I found is that her father sold their house in Odden, Nordby sogn på Fanø in 1888.  I think Cathrine Bruun and her mother Christiane Augustine Bjerregaard lived in the house until then.  Cathrine went to work in Kbh, and the mother stayed on Fanø until she died in 1908.  The mother owned nothing, so her skifteprotokol does not mention the children's names or residences.   :(

It is also possible that Cathrine Bruun went to America after her mother died, but I have nothing in my family records to indicate that she left Denmark.

With all the new records available on AO now, I can keep busy looking for information on my other Danish ancestors that I never had time for, back in the days when records were on microfilm and progress was slow. 

mvh
Lisa Petersen

Lisa Petersen

Today I found a Jørgen Lorentz August Jørgensen in the Fanø skode- og panteprotokoller.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16967783#212121,40081494

What is this document about?  It doesn't look like a deed or mortgage to me.  And does this prove that this Jørgen Lorentz August Jørgensen was on Fanø on 9 August 1832 when it was recorded?

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

Lisa Petersen

The document in question is at the bottom of the right page.  Sorry for any confusion.

Lisa Petersen


Helmer Christiansen

As far as I can read, it is about an auction held December 7th 1831 by JLAJ in his capacity as temporary appointed judge, court clerk and auction director in Fanø judicial district.
Helmer Christiansen
2000 F

Lisa Petersen

Thank you Helmer.  If he was a temporary appointed judge, his name may appear in other records, so I will look more in the Fanø court records.

There is a Jørgen Lorentz August Jørgensen in FT-1834 and FT-1840 living in Øster Egede, Fakse, Præsto, with his father Christian August Jørgensen.  He was born about 1807/1808 and was a Fuldmægtig, so he could be my ancestor contorist Jørgen August Jørgensen.

FT-1834, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=3622#3622,106161
FT-1840, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=6475#6475,146916

On FT-1845, his father is still in Øster Egede, but JLAJ is not living at home. 
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=8272#8272,198719

Then I looked in the Øster Egede afgangslister, and found that JLAJ went to North America in 1842.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17120063#159324,26787873

Can anyone suggest what I should do next?