Location of old house

[Ric Rasmussen]

In a few months, we will have the opportunity of spending a day on Møn.  Is there anyway from the old records to find out where exactly (the house not just the town) my relatives lived and if the house still exists?

Thanks,

Ric

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Ric

Send them a mail at http://www.empiregaarden.dk/lokalarkiv-for-moen/lokalarkiv-for-moen/ - Susanne the manager og the archive is available thursday or friday - she can possibly help You. It is the local Archive for Møn

Or tell us here who You are looking for

[Helmer Christiansen]

If you have you family in a census after 1890 (1901,..) you might find the land registry number (cadastrial number) of their house/farm (matrikelnummer). With this number you can try to find information about the present day proporty at https://ois.dk ("Via matrikelnummer"). This site has information on all Danish real estate. Description of the houses, when built, official valutation and sales prices, adress etc.

Another source: The Conveyance and mortgage records (Skøde- og panteprotokoller) where the index (Realregister) is sorted by matrikel numbers.

[Ric Rasmussen]

Lis & Helmer,

Thank you for your responses.  I realize the original question was a while ago but I am now a week away from when I will be visiting.  The only relative that shows up in a census after 1890 is the step-father, Jens Jørgen Rasmussen, of my great-great-great grandfather, Hans Jørgen Christiansen.  Here is his info from the 1906 census:


Source:   FT-1906
Name:   Jens Jørgen Rasmussen   Sex:   M
Birth date:   3/1-1823
Position in household:   Husfader   Marital status:   Enkemand
Occupation:   Alderdomsunderstøttelse
Parish:   Fanefjord   District:   Mønbo
County:   Præstø   Place name:   Haarbølle
Household-/family no:   100
Cadastre:   31
Source entry no:   D4005   Record no.:   417


I tried the site mentioned but as it is only in Danish I couldn't figure it out.  The words on the site must be graphical images because Google Chrome couldn't translate it.  There is a cadastrial number but I don't have a matrikelnummer.

The main family would be Jens Jørgen Rasmussen (FamilySearch 29SC-3BB) and Karen Marie Sorensdatter (FS K2C3-TCC).  Her parent's home would be another possibility but that is even older I'm sure it is less likely.

So for people living at that time, does the information exist to know where they lived?

Thanks again,

Ric

[Lis B. Jensen]

Take contact to the local archive as i wrote - as soon as Possible

they can help you

[Inger Toudal]

The 1901 census: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=21340#21340,1924088

- Cadastre 8.

1899 maps:

http://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=sognekort&id=860&elav=null

http://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=sognekort&id=861&elav=null

Source: http://hkpn.gst.dk/

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Britta Hansen]

In the 1901 Census the neighbour-property is named "matr. nr. 8 Hårbølle by, Fanefjord as well.
It is owned by Hemming Hemmingsen.

In the 1906 Census the farm owned by Hemming Hemmingsen is named "Matr. nr. 8a Hårbølle by, Fanefjord sogn"
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=10923#10923,288221

The address of this property is Hårbøllevej 26, Hårbølle, 4792 Askeby. Mr. Rasmussen might have lived in a house built on the same piece of land and then sold to Mr. Rasmussen.

Have a look at the Historical maps on http://hkpn.gst.dk/

[John Damm Sørensen]

Hi Ric,

The cadastral 31 has later been joined with cadastral 32 and later cadastral 33.
The current address of the cadastral 33 is Hårbøllevej 25, Askeby.

At that address there is still an old house, but whether it is one original from cadastral 32 or the one on cadastral 31 is hard to say. Anyway here is what the house looks like today:
https://www.google.dk/maps/@54.8979435,12.1783474,3a,75y,82.58h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjOlfokIIaow9laGbwdwaHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1


Here is a link to an old cadastral map of the city:
http://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=o2k_oekort&id=22321&elav=0320553

Best
John

[Ric Rasmussen]

Thank you for the responses.

Lis, I reached out to Susanne when you recommended it the first time.  Unfortunately she said she didn't have time to help me.  She pointed me to the online maps but being unfamiliar with all of this, I was unsuccessful at finding anything.

Inger, Britta and John that is very helpful.  Thank you.

If I understand all of this correctly, this information would suggest that in 1901 Jens Jorgen was living at Cadastre 8 which is current day Hårbøllevej 26.  This same property housed Hemming Hemmingsen and given what I know about Jens Jorgen my guess would be he lived in a house on Hemming's property rather than the other way around.

Then by 1906, Jens Jorgen is at Cadastre 31 which is current day Hårbøllevej 25 (right next door).  At that point, the census says he is receiving state aid so he is probably in someone else's house.

Does that all sound accurate?

Thank you,

Ric

[John Damm Sørensen]

Hi Ric,

It sounds right to me. I 1906 Jens Jørgen lives with another family at cadastre 31:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=10923#10923,288222

Here is a topographical maps from arund 1900 where you can see what the town looked like:
http://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=lkMaalebordsblade&id=17224

Best
John

[Inger Toudal]

The 1899 maps show that the land of Cadastre No 8a is on both sides of the road. There is a house on Cadastre No 31 - or rather one long house situated on both Cadastre No 31, and No 32.

Maybe the Cadastre info for J. J. R. in the 1901 census is not quite correct, or up-to-date?

In the 1901 census, Jens Jørgen Rasmussen is recorded as the owner of the house (Ejerens Navn: J. J. R.)

In 1906, he still has his own household (is Husfader), but it seems that it's Hans Jakob Kristiansen who owns or rents the house where J. J. R. is living.

On the same page, you see two other families living at Cadastre No 32, and No 33.

J. J. R.'s death record 1909 says he was a Husmand (not fhv. 'former') at the time he passed away:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17118742#156770,26281348 - No 18

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17114641#149319,24693923 - top

- but nothing about whether he owned or rented the house he was living in.

Best regards,
Inger

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Ric

If Susanne couldnot helo you - you can try to visit this place - http://thorsvangsamlermuseum.dk/ - They can maybe give you more information.
Contacts:
http://thorsvangsamlermuseum.dk/?page_id=25 - or call Henrik Hjortkær på tlf. +45 40469146

[Inger Toudal]

The family is here in 1850:

Præstø, Mønbo, Fanefjord, Haarbølle, 1 Huus, 261, FT-1850, B9440
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Position in household:       Occupation:       Birth place:
Rasmus Jørgensen    72    Gift       lever af sin Jordlod, Huusfader    Do [her i Sognet]
Ane Marie Andersen    44    Gift       hans Kone [Rasmus Jørgensen]    Do [her i Sognet]
Karen Marie Corstenberg    6    -       Pleiebarn i Datters Sted [Rasmus Jørgensen og Ane Marie Andersen]    Do [her i Sognet]
Jens Jørgen Rasmussen    28    Gift       Indsid, Dagleier [Rasmus Jørgensen og Ane Marie Andersen]    Do [her i Sognet]
Karen Marie Sørensen    38    Gift       hans Kone [Jens Jørgen Rasmussen]    Do [her i Sognet]
Hans Jorg: Christiansen    10    -       deres Søn [Jens Jørgen Rasmussen og Karen Marie Sørensen]    Do [her i Sognet]

The house at Cadastre No 31 is marked on the 1816 map, too:

http://hkpn.gst.dk/mapviewer.aspx?type=sognekort&id=859&elav=

Source: http://hkpn.gst.dk/ - Sogne- og herredskort, Sogn: Fanefjord

So I guess it's very much possible that Jens Jørgen Rasmussen (son of Husmand Rasmus Jørgensen), his wife, and step-son were living in the same house where we see J. J. R. in the 1901 and 1906 censuses.

But the still existing house may be the one that you see at Cadastre No 33 in the 1906 census.

http://hkpn.gst.dk/altMapViewer.aspx?maptype=2&bbox=698395.492022,6083353.121065,708988.408701,6093233.080028

Best regards,
Inger

[Ric Rasmussen]

Thank you, John.

Lis, I will look into that.  Thanks.

Inger, that is great information.  Thank you so much.  I now have a general idea of where he probably was.  Thank you.

Ric