Julius Simonsen - Odense

Peter Simonsen · 19 Jun 2017 - 02:57

Greetings, I am trying to track down more information regarding my Great Grandfather Julius Simonsen born in Odense in 1852, He came to New Zealand in the late 1870's and was apparnatly a salior. I can trace him upto around 1865 living in Ondense but can then not find any record of him until he arrives in Neew Zealand and Marries in 1878. I have aphoto of him taken in Kjobehavn vby JWT Schous Gothersgade #49 he is dressed in a saliors uniform with a cap on that appears to say Transport??

Any help appreciated.

Inger Toudal · 19 Jun 2017 - 10:08

Are you looking for Anders Julius Simonsen born 4 Apr. 1852?

Sogn Sankt Hans
Begivenhed Fødsel
Kirkebog 1848-72
Side i kirkebog 32
Løbenummer 181403830
Fødsel dag 4
Fødsel måned 4
Fødsel år 1852
Kirkedåb dag 18
Kirkedåb måned 4
Kirkedåb år 1852
Barnets personnummer 18520404004
Barnets fornavn Anders Julius
Barnets efternavn Simonsen
Køn M
Født inden for ægteskab? Nej
Faders personnummer 17929999150
Faders fornavn Julius
Faders efternavn Sille
Faders erhverv Kjøbmand
Faders stednavn af St. Knuds Sogn
Moders personnummer 18230326004
Moders fornavn Ellen Kirstine
Moders efternavn Simonsen
Moders stednavn hos Broderen Arbeidsmand Lars Simonsen paa Nørrebroe
Moders alder 29
Bemærkninger Angivet Barnefader.
Anm: Moderen er en Datter af Huusmand Simon Hansen i Naarup, Verninge Sogn.

- source: http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/person/18520404004

His mother: http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/person/18230326004

His (alleged) father: http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/person/17929999150

He is here in the 1860 and 1870 censuses: :

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Paaskestræde 42, forhuset 1 sal, 1, FT-1860, B0289
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birth place:
Hans Christensen     30     Gift    gaardskarl        Lumby sogn, Odense Amt
Ellen Kirstine Simonsen     38     Gift    huusbestyrerinde        Norup sogn
Anders Julius Simonsen     8     Ugift    søn        Odense
Frederik Christian     1     Ugift    søn        Odense

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Tolderlundsveien, 104, Forhuset, 3770, FT-1870, D4595
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birth place:
Lars Simonsen     53     Gift    Huusfader    Arbeidsmand    Verninge Sogn, Odense Amt
Kirsten Rasmussen     64     Gift    Huusmoder        N. Lyndelse Sogn, Odense Amt
Anders Julius Simonsen     17     Ugift    Søn        Odense

- staying with his uncle Lars Simonsen mentioned in the birth record.

His mother Ellen Kirstine Simonsen, who married Hans Christensen 3 Nov. 1858 in Sankt Knud's church, died 13 Jun. 1871,
and was buried from Sankt Knud's church:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17129128#174305,29319626 - right page

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Heden, 20, Baghus 1 Etage, 1039, FT-1870, D4595
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birth place:
Hans Christensen     39     Gift    Husfader    Arbeidsmand    Lumby Sogn, Odense Amt
Ellen Kirstine Christensen     47     Gift    Husmoder        Verninge Sogn, Odense Amt
Frederik Carl Aage Martin Christensen     10     Ugift    Søn        Odense
Juliane Kathrine Jensine Christensen     8     Ugift    Datter        Odense
Hans Lindegaard Christensen     4     Ugift    Søn        Odense

His father Giullio Sillo was married in 1819 (Sankt Knud's) to Anne Kunnerup (who died in 1832), and died 1856:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17129128#174310,29320499 - right page

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Westergade, No. 270, 299, FT-1845, B1959
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birth place:
Sillo     52     Enke        Kjøbmand    Italien
Alexandra Sillo     16     -        Handelsbetjent, søn    Odense
Joseph Sillo     25     Ugift        Handelsbetjent, søn    Odense
Juliane Sillo     22     Ugift        hans Datter    Odense
Marie Sillo     17     Ugift        hans Datter    Odense
Domingo Lands     25     Ugift        ??    Italien
Gevans Andreotto     28     Ugift        ??    Italien

- source: http://ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp

The photographer Jens Valdemar Theodor Schou had a studio in Gothersgade 49, Copenhagen, from 1875 to Oct. 1884.
- source: http://www.bornholmphoto.dk/bo1920/index.html

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Peter Simonsen · 20 Jun 2017 - 06:38

Thank you for your response yes that is the Julius I am looking for, any idea were I can go from here to work out when he left Denmark, I assume as is widely believed he was a salior and not a passenger records will be hard to come by, I have information on his mother but not alot on his Father so the information is very much appreciated.

Inger Toudal · 20 Jun 2017 - 12:12

He is here in the military levying roll (Lægdsrulle) 1868:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16480940#19370,1446032 - right page, top

- seaman's discharge book (Søfartsbog) 28 May 1868.

- in 1874 he was transferred to the naval roll (S.R. = Sørulle), which unfortunately is not online.

All naval rolls fom Funen should become available at Arkivalieronline by the end of 2017:
https://www.sa.dk/brug-arkivet/ao/kommende-digitaliseringer-paa-arkivalieronline

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Denmark_Military_Records

No emigration record in http://www.udvandrerarkivet.dk/udvandrerprotokollerne/

Best regards,
Inger

Peter Simonsen · 20 Jun 2017 - 23:29

Thank you so much for the information, I have never ben able to locate anything o this is amazing and much appreciated can you tell me what are the numbers in the far right column mean or relate to? Also Julius Sillo his father was an umbrella merchant in Odense is there anyway of trcking down more info in relation to his business? Again thank you so much for the information provided, I am facinated to learn more about Julius, we visited Odense in April for couple of days and walked around the area were he lived the church etc and his journey to New ZEaland has really facinated me.

Inger Toudal · 21 Jun 2017 - 12:21

In the levying roll far right column, there's a reference to Anders Julius' confirmation Conf. 1866 in 111. L.[ægd] in St. Hans [church]:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138167#180578,30640931 - No 25
- knowledge: very good, conduct: excellent. Vaccinated (against small pox) 16 Jul. 1853 by Esbensen.

- and to his seaman's discharge book Søfartsbog 28/5 68.

Lægd 111 was Odense Købstad from 1843 to 1850 (from 1851 Lægd 145), but the old number was still being used in the 1868 levying roll.

His father Guillio Sillo was not only an umbrella maker (Paraplyfabrikant), but also a milliner / fashion dealer (Modehandler) who traded
fancy goods (Galanterie).

In the index to the Odense trade licence protocol, he's also listed as trading maps (Landkort) and copper (Kobber):
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=174592#174592,29334497 - right page
- trade licence 6 Jan. 1819, terminated 28 May 1856.

In the 1834 census and earlier he's in Nørregade, later in Vestergade (the numbers do not correspond to today's street numbers).

In the Odense database he is also found under this number: http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/person/17929999133

His father Joseph Sillo died in Odense 10 Sep. 1824: http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/person/17508888001

Best regards,
Inger

Peter Simonsen · 21 Jun 2017 - 23:01

Inger, Thank you so much once again for the information, I have ben trying for a number of years to find out more about Julius and you have answered so much for me in a week it is truely amazing and very much appreciated.
If I may ask a couple more questions

Was joining the Navy or Military compulsory in Denamrk at this time (1870's) or would he have volunteered?

Also Julius was born out of wedlock, what would have been the general attitude of people towards this situation in the 1850's?
I know this is a big assumption on my part but it would appear from the census records and some historical information from his children, it appears that he did not get on with his step-father, hence living with Lars Simonsen in later Cencus records,
and then leaving Denmark after his mothers death.

Also is there any data base that I can check out that may have crew list of sailing ships in the late 1870's?

Once again thanks so much for your help.

Kind Regards
Peter Simonsen

Inger Toudal · 22 Jun 2017 - 12:00

All young men were listed on a parish roll of potential draftees. Unless they were declared unfit for military service, they most likely
would have to join the army or the navy at some time. It wasn't voluntary. Some emigrated before it was time to join the army.

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Danish_Military_Levying_Rolls:_When_was_a_person_registered_in_the_L%C3%A6gdsruller

I don't know about people's attitude towards children born out of wedlock, but it seems Anders Julius did quite well. The situation
must have been worse for those that ended up as foster children, if the mother or relatives couldn't care for them.

The 1855 census for Odense is not indexed, so cannot say where he was staying at that time.

His uncle married in 1851:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FKWF-T2B
Name    Lars Simonsen
Spouse's Name    Kirsten Rasmusdr
Event Date    05 Apr 1851
Event Place    Dalum,Odense,Denmark
Father's Name    Simon Hansen
Spouse's Father's Name    Rasmus Larsen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137415#178900,30345346 - bottom (LS is bachelor)

- and Anders Julius was living with him in 1866, the year of his confirmation. It seems the uncle didn't have children of his own.

Lars Simonsen's wife died 1871, and he remarried later the same year:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17129128#174308,29320118 - left page, bottom, & right page, top

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138183#180705,30679809 - No 18

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Ridehusgade 8, forhus, 2665, FT-1880, B0082
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Lars Simonsen     59     Gift    arbeidsmand, husfader        Verninge, Odense Amt
Ane Marie Simonsen     56     Gift    husmoder        Sønder Næraa sogn, Odense Amt

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Ridehusgade, 8. forhuset, 1, FT-1890, B0315
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Lars Simonsen     71     Gift    husfader    tømmerlæsser    Norup Skov. Verning sogn. Odense Amt
Marie Simonsen født Rasmussen     66     Gift    husmoder        Sønder Næraa. Odense Amt

Best regards,
Inger

Inger Toudal · 20 Nov 2017 - 08:32

The naval rolls from Funen 3. Udskrivningskreds Tilgangsliste til sørulle (1862 - 1922) are now available:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/other/other-collection/4

Anders Julius Simonsen is here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20241587#308576,63280840 - Z 5

- he joined the Navy 31 May 1877 (right page). I'm not sure how to interpret the other notations.

Best regards,
Inger