Name of child for Christen Jorgensen

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

Hello.  Christen Jorgensen is my 5th great-grandfather.  He married Anne Mortensdatter around 1752 most likely in Vejle, Bjerre and perhaps even Klakring or Assens but I have not located their marriage record.  According to my records there should be children as follows.

Jorgen Christensen b about 1754

Henrich Christensen b 14 Nov 1756 Klakring: top left https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863762

Neils Christens b 8 Oct 1758 Klakring: top right https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863764

Morten Christensen b 13 Jul 1760 Klakring: upper right https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863767

Mette Sophie Christensdatter b 27 Jun 1762 Klakring: lower right https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863769


Left side Dom. 21 p Trin. Birth: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863759

Can someone translate the record for me as I cannot decipher who was baptised.  It should be Jorgen but it looks like Terchil?

[Niels Conradsen]

Dom 21 p. Trin Christen Jørgensen at (working for) Lars Jepsen his Child baptized Terchil (today you would spell it Terkel). Godmother Maren Knudsdatter. Witnesses Morten Smed, Morten Jørgensen, Christen Kolds Wife and Christen Nielsens youngest Daughter Maren

It is definetely a son Terchil, who is baptized here

best regards Niels

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

Thank you so much Niels!  I am going to need to go back through my papers and notes to figure out where the name Jorgen came from.  Then I will look for the parent's marriage record.

The other confusing part is that the census 1787, Klakring, Vejle, Bjerre shows the following:

All members of the household

Name:    Age:    married ?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Jørgen Christensen     34     Single     Male                   Bonde and Gaard Beboer       
Niels Christensen     28     Single     Tienestefolk           
Niels Poulsen                  16     Single     Tienestefolk           
Kirsten Friderichsdatter     20     Single     Tienestefolk           
Christen Jørgensen     74     Married     Man's Father           
Anne Mortensdatter     64     Married     His wife           
Iver Pedersen                  45     Married     Tenant                    cooperage      
Anne Jensdatter                  35     Married     Wife

This would make Jorgen born about 1753 so perhaps he was born before Terchild?

The people in bold all reflect people in my tree.     

[Niels Conradsen]

On the following page you can read:

1755
1. Sonday in the Lent (16. february 1755) Christen Jørgensen at Lars Jepsen his child Terchild  buried.

So the child Terchild only lived a couple of months

best regard Niels

[Niels Conradsen]

See also

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121476#159774,26863540

Right Page - last entry : Christen Jørgensen has got a daughter Stine Johanne

Niels

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

Thank you Niels.  That is so helpful!

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

I am starting to think I am dealing with two Christen Jorgensens in the parish.

Birth 1753 Johanne bottom right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121476#159774,26863540

The father looks like he is listed as Christen Jorgensen Rauvs?

Death 1753 Johanne left side: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121476#159774,26863541

The father looks like he is listed as Christen Jorgensen Rauvs?

Death 1753 Christen Jorgensen Rauvs?: age 66 at the bottom left https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159774#159774,26863542

Birth 1756 Henrich Christensen upper left https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863762

The father is Christen Jorgensen Samling?

Birth 1762 Mette Sophie Christensdatter bottom right https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863769

The father is Christen Jorgensen Samling?

[Inger Toudal]

Stor(?) Christen Jørgensens Barn døbt
Nine [Nomine] Johanne, ..........

Stor(?) Christen Jørgensens Mindste barn Johan-
ne begravet.

gl.(?) [gamle] Christen Jørgensens Hustru be-
gravet æt. 66.

Christen Jørgensen i Samsing-Gaarden hans
Barn døbt nafnlig Henrich.

Christen Jørgensen Samsings Pi-
gebarn døbt nafnlig Mette-Sophie, ..........

Maybe these transcripts of church records can help you: https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/kilder/afskrevne-kilder/vejle-amt/kirkeboeger-mv-fra-vejle-amt

- or maybe you can find probate(s) here: https://www.brejl.dk/bjerre.html

Perhaps Jørgen was born in another parish?

Year:    FT-1787   Source reference:   100   
Cadastre/Address:   Klakring Bye   
Household No:   2   
Name:   Christen Jørgensen      Gender:   M   
Age:   74      Civil status:   Gift   
Position in household:   Mandens Fader   
No of marriage:   1   
Parish:    Klakring   District:    Bjerre
Shire:    Vejle   Place name:    Klakring Sogn
Source entry No:    B9159   Record No.:    72

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Niels Conradsen]

Hello Rebecca

I think you hav a few misunderstandings of the old Danish in the churchbook:

Death 1753 Christen Jorgensen Rauvs?: age 66 at the bottom left https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159774#159774,26863542:
May 25: Christen Jørgensens Hustru (i.e. wife) begravet (buried) at: 66 (years)

Birth 1756 Henrich Christensen upper left https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863762:
Domm22 p: Trinit: Christen Jørgensen i Samsing=gaarden(on the Samsing farm) hans Barn døbt nafnlig Henrich (his child baptized named Henrich)

Birth 1762 Mette Sophie Christensdatter bottom right https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=159776#159776,26863769
3die Søndag efter Pasche (3. Sonday after Easter) Christen Jørgensen Samsings Pleje Barn (Christen Jørgensen Samsings foster child) døbt nafnlig  Mette=Sophie( baptized named Mette Sophie)

So either you have two Christen Jørgensens or he has had two wives.

I guess you have found the son Jørgen Christen in the 1801 census from Klakring:

Vejle, Bjerre, Klakring, Klakring Sogn, Klakring, 4, FT-1801, B9165
Jørgen Christensen  46  Gift  Huusbonde Bonde og Gaardbeboer    
Karen Jensdatter  35  Gift  Hans Kone  
 Ane Marie Jørgensdatter  12  Ugift  Deres Børn    
Christen Jørgensen 9  Ugift  Deres Børn    
Ane Katrine Jørgensdatter  6  Ugift  Deres Børn    
Kirsten Jørgensdatter  4  Ugift  Deres Børn    
Ane Jørgensdatter  1  Ugift  Deres Børn  
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter  1  Ugift  Deres Børn    
Ane Mortensdatter  78  Enke  Huusbondens Moder  faaer Aftægt af Gaarden    
Thomas Holgersen  20  Ugift  Tieneste Karl  

Regards Niels
  
  

[Inger Toudal]

Perhaps Christen Jørgensen and Anne Mortensdatter were married in Glud parish 16 Nov. 1753:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123072#162756,27344407 - right page, bottom

They were betrothed 17 Oct. 1753: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123072#162756,27344406 - right page

- Christen Jørgensen af Synderbye [Sønderby] og Anne Mortensdatter af Glud Præstegaard. 

- found in the transcript of church records mentioned earlier.

Best regards,
Inger

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

Thank you Niels and Inger.  This really helps a lot.

So was my Mette Sophie Christensdatter adopted?  She is my 4th great-grandmother and now I am wondering if her presumed father was really just an adoptive father.  What does foster child mean in Denmark?  In Canada it is a child that a family takes in and looks after them because the parents cannot.

I do think Christen Jorgensen was married twice but thanks to the transcript links and the probate links I should be able to verify these things much easier.

[Inger Toudal]

Like I wrote earlier, I read Pigebarn, i.e. baby girl.

In other records on the page, you see Pigebarn, and Drengebarn, i.e. baby boy.

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Danish_Word_List

According to the 1787 census, Christen Jørgensen was in his 1st marriage: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=720#720,54299

- but that, of course, is his own, or his son's statement, not necessarily the truth.

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Denmark_Genealogy

Bests regards,
Inger

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

According to the 1787 census, Christen Jørgensen was in his 1st marriage: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=720#720,54299

- but that, of course, is his own, or his son's statement, not necessarily the truth.

I got confused because in Neils post he translated that to foster child.  I see that it is pigebarn.

Thank you for the other links.  I have saved everything I can onto my computer or bookmarked it for future reference.  I wish I had those 6 years ago when I started working on my dad's family tree. 

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

Perhaps Christen Jørgensen and Anne Mortensdatter were married in Glud parish 16 Nov. 1753:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123072#162756,27344407 - right page, bottom

They were betrothed 17 Oct. 1753: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123072#162756,27344406 - right page

- Christen Jørgensen af Synderbye [Sønderby] og Anne Mortensdatter af Glud Præstegaard. 

- found in the transcript of church records mentioned earlier.

Best regards,
Inger

What made you think of Glud for the couple?  I am curious if I have overlooked something that was obvious to you.

I am also thinking that there are two different Christen Jorgensen's.  I found these records in the transcripts.

Christen Jorgensen #1:
1743: langfredag Christen Jørgensen soldat publice absolveret for begangen lejermål med Maren Terkelsdatter.
1744: Dom 20 p trin Christen Jørgensen og Maren Terkelsdatter trolovede med forlovere Rasmus   s.271
Jensen Samsing og Christen Nielsen ved kirken
1744: 3 juledag dito Christen Jørgensen og Maren Terkelsdatter copulerede
1745: dom 17 p trin Christen Jørgensen soldat hans barn døbt Jørgen susc Mads Krages hustru test Hans Rasmussen Rasmus Jørgensen, Jens Nielsen ved kirken og Thomas Poulsens hustru
1745: Dom 3 adv Christen Jørgensen soldat hans barn begravet
1746: Dom 3 adv Stor Christen Jørgensens barn døbt Anne susc Anne Kirstine Terkelsdatter test Jørgen Midser, Rasmus Jørgensen og Magrethe Terkelsdatter
1749: 3 s i faste Stor Christen Jørgensens barn døbt Karen, susc Karen Olesdatter tienende Antoni Jacobsen tst Christen Rold Rasmus Jørgensens Søren Drejer og An Kirstine Terkelsdatter
1753: dom 5 p epiph Stor Christen Jørgensens barn døbt Johanne susc Anne Kirstine Terkelsdatter test Søren Drejer i Vesterby, Hans Rasmussen, Rasmus Jørgensen og Maren Hans Diderichs datter
1753: 2 s i faste Stor Christen Jørgensens mindste barn Johanne begravet
Then there is this:
1753: Maj 25 Christen Jørgensens (#2?) hustru begravet æt 66 [how could she be 66 at death and just have had a child?  So, obviously not the same Christen's wife Maren Terchildsdatter]
1754: dom 21 p trin Christen Jørgensen hos Lave Jepsen hans barn døbt Terkel, susc Maren Knudsdatter, test Morten Smed, Morten Jørgensen, Christen Rolds hustru og Christen Nielsens yngste datter Maren.
1755: 1 s i faste Christen Jørgensen hos Lave Jepsen hans barn Terkel begravet
1756: 18 maj gammel Christen Jørgensen (#2?) begravet æt 67 [I think this might be the Christen whose wife died in 1753 because they are so close in age]

So, I do not think either of these two Christen's are the same family that is in the Census records above.


Here I think we start with a 3rd Christen Jorgensen (possibly my Christen Jorgensen).
1756: dom 22 p trin Christen Jørgensen i Samsinggården hans barn døbt navnlig Henrik, susc Mad. Mossin på Palsgård, test Peder ladefoged på Palsgård, Jens Vendelboe ibid, Gotfred Jensen og Johanne Stuepge ibid.

Are you aware of any transcriptions of comings and goings from the parishes? (I know there are slides but they are not always easy to understand).  This might confirm things for me once and for all if I can see a Christen Jorgensen coming into the Klakring parish.  If he is coming from Glud all the better because then that would tie in with the betrothal and marriage documents you found.

[Inger Toudal]

What made you think of Glud for the couple?  I am curious if I have overlooked something that was obvious to you.

Are you aware of any transcriptions of comings and goings from the parishes? (I know there are slides but they are not always easy to understand). 
This might confirm things for me once and for all if I can see a Christen Jorgensen coming into the Klakring parish.  If he is coming from Glud all the
better because then that would tie in with the betrothal and marriage documents you found.

I simply looked for the marriage of a Christen Jørgensen and Anne Mortensdatter in the nearby parishes: https://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kortvejl.htm

There are no lists of persons arriving and leaving the parishes at that time. They are only found from 1814 onwards.

Best regards,
Inger

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

After reviewing all of the baptism records, census documents and anything else I could get my hands on I do not think that Christen Jorgensen and Anne Mortensdatter (who married in Glud) are the parents I was looking for.

My 4th great-grandmother Mette Sophie Christensdatter is born around 1762 (based on Census records).  I found this detailed baptism record in 1762 in Klakring-partially posted earlier and holds a big clue.

3 s e påske (27 Jun) Christen Jørgensen Samsings pigebarn døbt navnlig Mette Sophie, susc Michel Jørgensens kone test Hans Samsing, Rasmus Samsing, Christen Jørgensen i Sønderby og Antoni Jacobsens kone i Klakring.

I could never tie the Glud couple to any child other than Jorgen whose birth record I also could not find.

I also think that there are 3-Christen Jorgensens in the parish at the same time.  "Stor" (Big) Christen Jorgensen, who married Maren Terchildsdatter in 1744, is the likely father of a couple of children (1745-1755), given the witnesses.  Christen Jorgensen Sønderby moved into the parish at some point and I do not think he has any children in Klakring (possibly Niels as I see him and Jorgen Christen Jorgensen's sons as witnesses together ie: 1787 midfastesøndag Else Rasmusdatters uægte barn døbt Rasmus susc Hendrik Samsings kone test Christen Jørgensens sønner Jørgen og Niels, Knud Mortensen, Lave Mortensens og Rasmus Falsters hustruer, som fader blev angivet Morten Christensen) AND 1787 dom 5 p trin Knud Mortensens barn døbt Christen susc Christen Jørgensens datter Karen fra Hornsyld, test Christen Jørgensen sønner Jørgen og Niels, Rasmus Skrædder, Henrik Falsters og Lave Mortensens hustruer, mod introd samme dag).

Big Christen Jorgensen is different from Christen Jorgensen Sønderby (the father of Jorgen Christensen and husband to Anne Mortensdatter) and they are all different from my Christen Jorgensen "Samsing".

I also found the record of Jorgen Christensen Samsing's wife's mother's death but no name for her either:

14 Dec 1766 • Klakring, Bjerre, Vejle, Denmark
dom 3 adv Christen Samsings kones moder begravet æt 72.

So, all of this is to say that I am back at square one with who is the mother of Mette Sophie Christensdatter.  Mette's children are named as follows:

1st husband - Knud Mortensen (1752-1794) [F: Morten Jorgensen M: Anne Knudsdatter Staugaard]
Christen Knudsen (b 1786)
Anne Knudsdatter (b 1791)

Engagement
7 Jul 1786 • Klakring, Bjerre, Vejle, Denmark
trolovede 7 juli Knud Mortensen og Christen Jørgensens datter Mette Sophie, forlovere:

Marriage
13 Oct 1786 • Klakring, Bjerre, Vejle, Denmark
13 okt Knud Mortensen og Mette Sophie Christensdatter

2nd husband - Niels Jorgensen Daugaard (1767-1828)
Maren Nielsdatter (1795-1878)
Knud Nielsen (1798-1865)
Jorgen Nielsen (b 1800)
Niels Nielsen (1803-1884)

Engagement
24 Oct 1794 • Klakring, Bjerre, Vejle, Denmark
Trolovet 24 okt Niels Jørgensen af Daugård og Knud Mortensens enke Mette Sophie Christensdatter.

Marriage
14 Nov 1794 • Klakring, Bjerre, Vejle, Denmark
copuleret 4 nov Niels Jørgensen Daugård og Mette Sophie Christensdatter

Given that the couple has not exactly followed traditional naming patterns, the mother of Mette Sophie might be Anne or Maren or some other name?

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

I guess what I am asking for is some fresh eyes, or another look, to see what I am missing.  I very much want to expand this part of my family tree but I am not sure where to go from here.

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

I have continued looking at this puzzle and came across a probate extract as follows:

398. Else Cathrine Rasmusdatter i Klakring 6-3-1809, s. 775. E: Morten Christensen. B: Rasmus 22, Anne 8, Anne Marie 5. FM: FARBROR: Jørgen Christensen, Klakring.

Found in: https://www.brejl.dk/bjerrezacho.pdf

So it appears that Morten Christensen *does* have a brother Jorgen after all.  That is what this record is saying?  Farbror Jorgen Christensen?

[Inger Toudal]

The children's guardian is their farbror (uncle, father's brother) Jørgen Christensen.

Vejle, Bjerre, Klakring, Klakring Sogn, Klakring, 23, FT-1801, B9165
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     
Morten Christensen     42     Gift      Huusbonde      Bonde og Gaardbeboer       
Else Cathrine Rasmusdatter     36     Gift      Hans Kone             
Rasmus Mortensen     14     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Mortensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Maren Pedersdatter     23     Ugift      Tienestepige   

Vejle, Bjerre, Klakring, Klakring Sogn, Klakring, 4, FT-1801, B9165
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:
Jørgen Christensen     46     Gift      Huusbonde      Bonde og Gaardbeboer       
Karen Jensdatter     35     Gift      Hans Kone             
Ane Marie Jørgensdatter     12     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Christen Jørgensen     9     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Katrine Jørgensdatter     6     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Kirsten Jørgensdatter     4     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Jørgensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Mortensdatter     78     Enke      Huusbondens Moder      faaer Aftægt af Gaarden       
Thomas Holgersen     20     Ugift      Tieneste Karl  

Best regards,
Inger

[Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland]

The children's guardian is their farbror (uncle, father's brother) Jørgen Christensen.

Vejle, Bjerre, Klakring, Klakring Sogn, Klakring, 23, FT-1801, B9165
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     
Morten Christensen     42     Gift      Huusbonde      Bonde og Gaardbeboer       
Else Cathrine Rasmusdatter     36     Gift      Hans Kone             
Rasmus Mortensen     14     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Mortensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Maren Pedersdatter     23     Ugift      Tienestepige   

Vejle, Bjerre, Klakring, Klakring Sogn, Klakring, 4, FT-1801, B9165
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:
Jørgen Christensen     46     Gift      Huusbonde      Bonde og Gaardbeboer       
Karen Jensdatter     35     Gift      Hans Kone             
Ane Marie Jørgensdatter     12     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Christen Jørgensen     9     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Katrine Jørgensdatter     6     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Kirsten Jørgensdatter     4     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Jørgensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter     1     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Ane Mortensdatter     78     Enke      Huusbondens Moder      faaer Aftægt af Gaarden       
Thomas Holgersen     20     Ugift      Tieneste Karl  

Best regards,
Inger

Hello Inger,

I have those census documents but I just feel odd with the 2nd one.

So that brings me right back to Ane Mortensdatter as the mother (who married in Glud to Christen Jorgensen that you found earlier).  There is just something about that couple that makes me think they are not mine, if that makes sense?  I will keep looking.  Until I find Jorgen Christensen's birth I do not feel I can be sure she is the same mother to Morten Christensen.  I am sure about the father being Christen Jorgensen Samsing.