Jørgen Jensen, f. ca. 1766-død 1848 i Rugbjerg, Hjørring Amt.

Startet af Karin Andersen, 19 Apr 2018 - 00:01

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Britta Hansen

#30
Søren Christensen af Brønderup and Kirsten Mickelsdatter 25. Juli 1766
Hjørring Parish
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=164082#164082,27548292 in the middle of the right page
copulered [married] 17. October

I did not find any Kirsten Mogensen
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Britta Hansen

#31
Søren Christensen Kragh, Skibsby probate 19 05 1792  page 317
http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt
Original source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357605 right side at the bottom

19.05.1792   Søren Christensen Kragh, Husfæster i Skibsby      Fol. 317
   Kiersten Michelsdatter

   Arvinger:    Enken
   Børn:
   Maren Sørensdatter, g.m. Niels Pedersen i Træholt huus i    Bjergby S.
   Kiersten Sørensdatter, g.m. Jørgen Jensen, Husfæster  Skibsby

20.05.1801   Kiersten Michelsdatter i Skibsby         Fol. 27
   Jens Nielsen, hendes 2. ægteskab [marriage]

   Arvinger:    Enkemanden
   Børn af 1. ægteskab: children in 1. marriage
   Maren Sørensdatter, g.m. Husmand Niels Kok i Trædholt i    Bjergby
   Kiersten Sørensdatter, g.m. Jørgen Kragh i Skibsby
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685 right side no 12
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Cyndilou

#32
I found the death record for Peder at danishfamilysearch.com in Tornby

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902243
Peder Jensen Record #25 Sept 1817

but I realized this can't be the Peder in my family because he was present at the baptism Oct 4 1817 of Jørgen's last child.

I think I need to look for him closer to Rubjerg.  He wasn't listed as present at the baptisms in Sankt Olai.  He didn't show up in the witnesses until the baptisms at Rubjerg.  

Cyndilou

#33
Deleted duplicate message....I thought previous one didn't show up but instead found we have gone to a second page

Cyndilou

#34
Oh Britta,
this is wonderful -- the info on Soren's family and all the previous info
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

And thanks to everyone.  Bless you all for your willingness to give of your time for those of us who can't read these records.  I'm so grateful!

Cyndilou

#35
CitatSøren Christensen Kragh , Shipyards probate 19 05 1792 page 317
http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt
Original source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid = 193002 # 193002,32357605 right side at the bottom

19.05.1792 Søren Christensen Kragh, Housekeeper in Skibsby Fol. 317
  Kiersten Michelsdatter

  Arvinger: Widow
  Children:
  Maren Sørensdatter, gm Niels Pedersen in Træholt huus in Bjergby S.
  Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Jensen, Housekeepers Skibsby

20.05.1801    Kiersten Michelsdatter in Skibsby          Fol. 27
  Jens Nielsen, her 2nd marriage [marriage]

  Heirs: The widow
  Children of 1. marriage: children in 1. marriage
  Maren Sørensdatter, gm Husmann Niels Kok in Trædholt in Bjergby
  Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Kragh in Skibsby
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser? bsid = 193003 # 193003,32357685 right side no 12

I noticed something here that confuses me.  
Is there some tradition I haven't learned about yet with names?  
Why in Kiersten's probate are the son in law's names different?
         Instead of Niels Pedersen we have Niels Kok and
         Instead of Jørgen Jensen we have Jørgen Kragh


Cyndilou

#36
one thing just leads to more and more questions.  

along with my questions in the post just before this one I have more questions for those who understand the Danish and their customs.  

Now that we've learned that Jørgen Jensen's wife's mother, Kirsten Michelsdatter, remarried a "Jens Nielsen" of all people, which Jens was at all of Jørgen's children's baptisms?

Now we have
Jørgen's father, Jens Nielsen and
Kirsten Sorensdatter's Step father, Jens Nielsen



The first 2 children "Jens Nielsen of Skisbsbye" attended
The 3rd child "Jens Nielsen of Hjøring" attended
The 4th child "Jens Nielsen" attended
 
I guess there is no way of knowing. At least until I find a death record for Jens.  

I also find it interesting that neither of the grandmother's are ever in attendance.  Why would that be?


Cyndilou

#37
uh oh....
now that I've been moving some things on family search I just realized something.  

according to the dates on the military rolls I may still have the wrong family :(  

the daughter Kirsten was previously attached to familytree but I don't see any sources.  I Haven't removed her because I also have no evidence she shouldn't be there.  

But then I look at the boys.  Niels was born about 1764 (according to the military roll) and the parents we've found weren't married until 1765.

any thoughts?  


Jens Nielsen
Deceased • LHYQ-VRS​
Inger Nielsen
Deceased • LBVR-MDH​
Marriage: 1765

Tornby, Hjørring, Denmark


Children (5)
Kirsten Jensdatter
1761–Deceased • MXVR-3X4​

Niels Jensen
1764–Deceased • M5H2-9PJ​

Jorgen Jensen
1766–1848 • LCVG-4ZR​

Michel Jensen
1767–Deceased • M5H2-9GW​

Peder Jensen Sort
1769–Deceased • M5H5-D7Z​


Britta Hansen

#38
Cyndi,

Citataccording to the dates on the military rolls I may still have the wrong family
I believe that you have the right family.

The 1789 Military Rolls were written in the period Nov. 1789 - Oct. 1790

Niels was born around 1765
Jørgen 1766/1767
Michel 1768
Peder in 1770 that's for sure

CitatPeder Jensen Sort
Where did you find the evidence that Peder Sort is the brother of Niels, Jørgen and Michel?

CitatKirsten Jensdatter
1761–Deceased • MXVR-3X4​
Where did you find the connection with the four boys?​
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Britta Hansen

#39
CitatI noticed something here that confuses me.  
Is there some tradition I haven't learned about yet with names?  
Why in Kiersten's probate are the son in law's names different?
         Instead of Niels Pedersen we have Niels Kok and
         Instead of Jørgen Jensen we have Jørgen Kragh

This is not unusual. Jørgen Jensen were married to a female from the Kragh family and the Kok name was probably a "nickname" to the Pedersen family.

CitatAt least until I find a death record for Jens.  
You can't. We have searched allover. Probate records can't be found either. :(
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Cyndilou

#40
Britta;

CitatWhere did you find the evidence that Peder Sort is the brother of Niels, Jørgen and Michel?
He is a witness at the baptism's in Rubjerg of Inger Marie, Johanne Marie, Zidsel Marie (Jørgen's daughter's)

Interesting as I look back on these children's names:  His children born in Sankt Olai do not have middle names. All those born in Rubjerg do have middle names.  

that is helpful knowing the time frame of the military rolls.  

As for Kirsten
CitatWhere did you find the connection with the four boys?​
She was attached to them on familytree.  However, I've found a census that places her with the other Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Knudsdatter so I will be removing her.  

Karin Andersen

#41
Hi  :)


I have been looking into one of the Jens Nielsen in Skibsby. I´ll put my notes here, so I don´t forget them.

1792 something happened.

In January 1792 Jens Nielsens wife Kirsten Christensdatter died and later that month Søren Christensen Krag dies and leave his widow Kirsten Mikkelsdatter.

Skibsby is nothing more than a small collection of farms. Here we have a man without a woman, to care for the household and a woman without a man to do the farmwork.

What do they do?

They get married the following year, on 18th. of January.

Ps. Kirsten Mikkelsdatter is probably the same who got a child Maren, before she got married the first time.


Notes:

Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 93.
8. jan. 1792. Jens Nielsens kone i Schibsbye Kirsten Christensdatter gl. 59 Aar.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548465

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 93.
24. jan. 1792. Søren Christensen Krag i Schibsbye gl. 60 Aar.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548465

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 98.
1793. 18. jan. Trolovet Enkemand Jens Nielsen i Skibsbye og Enken Kirsten Michelsdatter i Schibsbye. Forlovere: Anders Nielsen Tiirup i Schibsbye og Jens Jensen Frost?.ibid.  Bevis for Skifte holdtes for begge. Siche? forewist. Ægteviede  d. 10. Feb.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548470

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1753FVKD-1781FVKD. Opsl. 85.
1757, 24. april døbt Kirsten Michelsdatters af Schibsbye hendes uægte barn og som hafer aulet med Peder Jensen tienende hos Anders Riis. Maren. Faddere: Anna Xstensdatter i Nørgaard i Skibsby, Johanne Christensdatter hos Ulrik ibidm, Christen Mogensen ibid, Jacob Nielsen ibid, Jens Marqvorsen.  
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548331

Kind regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Cyndilou

#42
Karin;
WHOA!!  If this is YOUR family then we ARE related.  But probably not on the Jens Nielsen line.  For sure on the Søren Christensen Krag side. (at the bottom of this I'll show you how I'm related and maybe you could do the same?)
So cool!

I had found the record for Søren's death but someone translated it "April 24, 1792" so I looked closer at the record and it looks like Mar. 24th to me. ??  But then again I have no clue how to read these records.  I just see a name here and a number there and - guess a lot.   Lol

Is there any way to tell which Jens Nielsen;
father of Jørgen Jensen or step father in law of Jørgen Jensen, attended all of the baptisms of Jørgen's children?
I think I can be sure it was Jens Nielsen the step father of Kirsten in attendance to the first two baptisms.  It says "Jens Nielsen in Schibsbye"
the baptism for Kirsten says "Jens Nielsen of Hjøring" ??
the baptism for the 2nd Søren in 1801 says "Jens Nielsen" no identifier
then for the rest of the children born in Rubjerg there are no Jens Nielsen's as witness.

I wonder if I should assume that Jens Nielsen from Tornby died before these children were born.  He was in attendance at there marriage in Oct 1792  "guarantors, Hans Mikkelsen of Skibsby and Jens Nielsen of Tornby"

And why wouldn't Kirsten's mother, Kirsten Michelsdatter be listed in the witnesses at the baptisms?  She married her second husband in Jan 1793, first grandchild born Oct 6 1793.  Jens Nielsen in Schibsbye is witness but she is not.  Could she have died before then?  Or would there be other reasons grandma wouldn't be listed as witness?


I've been looking for a Jens Nielsen from EITHER Sankt Olai or Tornby....but I think I'm beginning to see that Jørgen's family is from Tornby and Kirsten's family is from Sankt Olai, so I
Need to find the right Jens Nielsen from Tornby, not Sankt Olai.
So far, I've found 3 Jens Nielsen's born in Tornby within the age that could be father of Jørgen Jensen.  

Kirsten Sørensdatter's father died 6 or 7 months (or 9 if it was January) before Kirstine Sorensdatter was married Jorgen Jensen.  Looking at the witnesses at her marriage I assumed that Hans Mikkelsen of Schibsbye was maybe an uncle... a brother to Kirsten Mikkelsen.   The other witness was Jens Nielsen of Tornbye....so we know this one is Jørgen's father because it specifies Tornbye.  


What is this a record of?  The more I look at it and see the names, I'm guessing this is the marriage of Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Michelsdatter.  
(Part of this thread gets translated into English and part of it doesn't.  Even when I type in English I look at it after I save it and some of it is in English and some in Danish.  
I try to use Google translate but sometimes it doesn't work.)

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 98.
1793. 18. jan. Trolovet Enkemand Jens Nielsen i Skibsbye og Enken Kirsten Michelsdatter i Schibsbye. Forlovere: Anders Nielsen Tiirup i Schibsbye og Jens Jensen Frost?.ibid.  Bevis for Skifte holdtes for begge. Siche? forewist. Ægteviede  d. 10. Feb.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548470

This one also I cannot read  going to the link it appears to be the birth of the Maren, you mentioned above.  So then, who is the father and what would Maren's last name be?  I see someone added a Maren to Søren and Kirsten in familysearch as Maren Christensdatter. (OH wait, it looks like I did   Thankfully I put a source.  She is listed as Maren Sørensdatter in the Probate of Soren Christensen Kragh.)   And only Kirsten and Maren are listed in the probate.  Does that me they were the only two children he had?  

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1753FVKD-1781FVKD. Opsl. 85.
1757, 24. april døbt Kirsten Michelsdatters af Schibsbye hendes uægte barn og som hafer aulet med Peder Jensen tienende hos Anders Riis. Maren. Faddere: Anna Xstensdatter i Nørgaard i Skibsby, Johanne Christensdatter hos Ulrik ibidm, Christen Mogensen ibid, Jacob Nielsen ibid, Jens Marqvorsen.  
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548331



The witnesses at the second marriage of Kirsten and Jens Nielsen caught my eye....this
"Jens Jensen Frost" with a step daughter Mette Christensdatter, could it be Praest instead of Frost? (I don't know how to push the a&e together ;)) I found this census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid162244

I find that name interesting because it also shows up as a witness in Jørgen's first child's baptism.  (oh, that's how I came up with the Mette Christensdatter as a step daughter....she is also a witness.)
So would there be some relationship with him?



How I'm related to:  
Søren Christensen Krag & Kirsten Michelsdatter –
Kirsten Sørensdatter & Jørgen Jensen –
Kirsten Jørgensdatter & Niels Jensen –
Niels Peter Nielsen & Mariane Margaret Larsen –
Karen Margretha Nielsen & Niels Andersen –
Anna Adora Andersen is my grandmother.


with much gratitude,
Cyndi

Cyndilou

#43
Karin,
I see looking back in this thread (I LOVE that this is all together)  that Britta found the Probate for Soren and for Kirsten.  
So Kirsten died in 1801.  So I still wonder why she wasn't listed as a Witness at the first 3 of Jorgen's children's baptisms.  ??? She was still alive and her 2nd husband was there.

CitatPROBATE for Kiersten Michelsdatter 2nd marriage:
20.05.1801 Kiersten Michelsdatter in Skibsby Fol. 27
  Jens Nielsen, here 2nd marriage [marriage]

  Heirs: The widow
  Children of 1. marriage: children in 1. marriage
  Maren Sørensdatter, gm Husmann Niels Kok in Trædholt in Bjergby
  Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Kragh in Skibsby
Source:  https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685
right side no 12

Karin Andersen

#44
Hi  :)

I´m sorry I have not yet followed up on your questions. It will have to wait for a little while.

As I told in my last post, I have been looking into the Jens Nielsens in the Skibsby area.

I have inherited some notes from my great grandfather that I have not been looking at in years. These notes is not always right. According to these papers my 3th. great grandfather had a brother Jens Nielsen. This I have confirmed. In 1793 he is in Aalborg according to the Lægdsrulle.

My 3th. great grandfather is this guy:

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sct. Olai sogn. Fol 405. Opsl. 198.
1838. No. 7. Død d. 12. nov., begr. d. 18. nov. Michel Nielsen Sommerdahl. Huusmand på Schibsbyheden. 82 år.

I will not write a lot about him, because this topic should be about Jørgen Jensen.

Kind regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Cyndilou

#45
I see the value of keeping all the info in one place when searching for a family.   ;D
I tried another forum and found that I like this one the best.  The other one Britta helped me on as well. Thank you Britta.  
So now I'm going to try and add everything I've learned from that other forum and facebook about this family to this thread to keep it all together.

In looking for Jørgen's parents Britta helped me find the following:
Here is the 1738 Jens
Citat
Hjørring County, Vennebjerg District, Tornby Parish 1683 - 1738
1738 Dom.: 1. post Trin: Niels Michelsens og Karen Jens-
datters Søn til Daaben kaldet Jens. Maren Peders-
datter bar Barnet. Faddere Frands Jørgensen, Christi-
an Jørgensen, Jens Møller
(I have no idea what the Danish words mean....google translate didn't work)

There is something about this one. There is a Jens Møller – seems like an unusual name to me.
Jens Møller never shows up as a witness for Jørgen Jensen's children's baptisms but there is a MØLLER.
Anders Møller.
I wonder if there is some relationship with Møller's

Depending on how accurate the date is on the 1801 Census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557290 I think this would be my family. But there is another Jens Nielsen born in Tornby within 2 years so I'm still not sure.

and there is a similarity with the 1736 Jens Nielsen as well :-\
1736 Jens Nielsen:
Citathttps://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../sour.../opslag5056624
Hjørring County, Vennebjerg District, Tornby Parish 1683 – 1738
1736 Dom.: Festo Epiphan. Niels Jensen Pletter/Platter?* og Maren
Stephansdatters Barn til Daaben kaldet Jens.
Præstens koune Helvig Glud? bar Barnet. Faddere
Lauritz Pedersen, Lauritz Jensen, Anders Jensen,
Peder Stephensen
Epiphan = Ephiphania = January 6, 1736
[*Plet is a place in Vrejlev Parish]

This one has a Stephansdatter – and there was a Stephansen as a witness at Jørgen's children's baptisms.

Britta found a probate to go along with the 1738 Jens Nielsen
In this probate there are names similar to Jørgen's Children's names: Anne, Michel, and Johanne.

Probate for the mother IF the 1838 Jens Nielsen is the right one for my family.
PROBATE for Karen Jensdatter
Citat08.01.1761 Karen Jensdatter i Tornby, død 08.11.1760 Fol. 142b
Niels Michelsen
Arvinger: Enkemanden [Heirs: the widower
Børn: Jens Nielsen, 22 år [children]
Anne Nielsdatter, 21 år
Maren Nielsdatter, 20 år
Michel Nielsen, 13 år
Johanne Nielsdatter, 13 år
Peder Nielsen, 9 år

My Jens Nielsen had 4 sons named Niels, Jorgen, Michel, Peder and 3 of these 4 names are also found in the 1838 Jens Nielsen's family (All but Jørgen)

I tried to find some of these brothers and sisters but was not very successful.  Fun note...looks like Michel and Johanne are twins.  
I found A Michel Nielsen but not sure he's the right one.  

There are these two censuses close to but not in Tornby, but I'm not sure they are the right Michel.
1787 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid152050 and
1801 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1461301

Records seem to be very hard to come by for this family. In fact, if you recall, we can't find birth records for Jorgen and his siblings before 1770. Thankfully we did find Peder in 1770.

I seem to be having the same issue with his parents. Looking at the Tornby records it appears to me from the index page that there are no birth records for 1739-1769 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../sour.../opslag5055285
So I have Jens Nielsen but not his brothers and sisters

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have helped with this.  




Cyndilou

#46
ikes....how do you delete a reply?  I seem to have trouble when I try to click on something in danish thinking I remember which button is the edit button and instead end up quoting myself   ::)  

So all I can do is go back and try to edit again, highlight and delete the repeated message - leaving this message to forever show my weakness, etched into cyberspace.   :'(

lol

Cyndilou

#47
Britta,
you have been so helpful with probates.  I used the search tool you taught me about and found this:
AASTRUP i Sct.Hans sogn   Maren Stephansdatter   Sønder Harritslev   06 11 1776   2   719 754   ugift tjenestepige

I don't know where to go from here to find the actual probate.  Would you teach me the steps to find it and also would you mind translating this one?  I think this might be the mother of the 1836 Jens Nielsen....although they would have had to move from Tornby to Aastrup.  

Thank you so much,
Cyndi

Cyndilou

#48
another question:
Will it always show the father's name on the military rolls even if he has died?  or is this an indication that Jens Nielsen was still alive at least through 1802 where he is listed as father of Jørgen in the military rolls?  

CitatPlease follow him in the Military Levying Rolls:
12_189 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 listed in Tornby + his brothers

Hovedrulle Hjørring 1795  28_140/106 (lægd 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485

Hovedrulle 1798 28_106/84 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059940
Going to 17_K97 [lægd 17 = Rubjerg in 1802]

17_K98 His son Søren Jørgensen born on March 18, 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18300,1061643

Hovedrulle 1803_17_97/68 Jørgen Jensen
                1803_17_98/69 his son Søren Jørgensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061898



Does anyone know what happened to the Tornby church books?  Seems that every part of it I need is missing.  
1- the birth records between 1739 and 1769
2- and now looks like the records for 1801 - 1814 are also missing.
did something happen to them or are they just not available yet?  

Karin Andersen

Hi Cindi.  :)

Sorry for writing these notes mostly in Danish, but I think you know most of the words by now. If not, just ask.

I have been looking into the family of Jørgen Jensen as we know it from the military roll. (The BK+numbers are my numbers from my database, you can refer to them).

Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK2899) Jens Nielsen
(BK17288) 188. Niels Jensen - Tornbye - 25 (born 1764) - 62 - Brønderup.
(BK17265) 189. Jørgen Jensen - Tornbye - 24 (born 1765) - 61 - Skibsbye - Hsmand.
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769) - 61 - Svagelieg?  - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148

Unfortunately the churchbooks from Tornby is missing, for some of the years quite critical to the investigation of this family. However we do get some help from censuses and the probate from Fuglsig Gods. (The link from answer #31 http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt ). Hopefully we can "work around" the missing pages.

We have been looking into the witnesses to the baptism of Jørgens children (this topic, page 1, answer #15+#18).

We noticed a Jens Nielsen mentioned as a witness to these baptisms. The priest does not tell anything else that the name of the witnesses, so we actually don´t know, if it is the same Jens Nielsen, who appears in both Sanct Olai sogn and Rubjerg parishes. The name Jens Nielsen is quite common in Denmark, also in this parishes. We also don ´t know if Jørgen has any sisters.

If I look at Jørgens elder brother Niels, I think I have found these info:

(BK17288) Niels Jensen - Tornbye - (age=) 26 - (hight=) 62 - (whereabouts=) Brønderup.
Age 1793 = 26 (born 1767 +/-)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 38.
4. marts 1791 unge Karl Niels Jensen(BK17288) tienende Peder Mikkelsen i Brønderup og Pigen Ane Marie Thomasdatter (BK17296) af Hiøring. Forlovere: Christen Christensen af Brønderup og Peder Mikkelsen ibid. Ægteviede d. 25. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548410

Baptised: Dorethe (BK12797)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans+Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 13.
3. juli 1791. Niels Jensen og hustru Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Daaben confirm. d. 17. Juli. Dorethe. Q. f.: Ellen Simonsdatter, Peder Pedersens hustru, Maren Christensdatter. M. f. Christen Jensen Lendum, Lars Pedersen tienende i Bidstrup, Jørgen Jensen t. i Brønderup(BK17265) . Introd.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548385

Baptised: Inger Marie (BK17298)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 16.
28. juli. 1793. Niels Jensen og Ane Marie Bødkers. Inger Marie. Q. f. Maren, Søren Andersens datter i Giurup, Marie Andersdatter ibidm. M. f.: Christen Andersen hos Simon Skrædder, Mikkel Jensen t. i Sønderlev, Peder Jensen t. i Fuglsig. Intr. d. 25. aug.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548388

Baptised: Bodel Sophie (17299)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 20.
17. April 1797. Niels Jensen Sort og hustru Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt d. 20. Maj. Bodel Sophie. Q. f. Karen Knudsdatter fra Bidstrup, Ane Marie Poulsdatter. M. f. Mikkel Jensen t(iener) (BK17289) hos [Christen Thomasen] Høgsted, Peder Jensen t. i Fuglsig (BK17290), Christen Christensen t. i Fuglsig. Introd. d. 17. April.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548392

Baptised: Karen (BK17300)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 23.
14. dec. 1798. Niels Jensen Sort og hustru Anmarie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Karen, Conf. d. 13. jan. 1799. Qvinde fadd: Inger, Kristian Hattemagers datter. Ane Laursdatter. M. fadd: Mikkel Jensen (BK17289), Peder Jensen(BK17290) , Christen Mortensen alle af Hiøring. Introd. d. 13. jan. 1799.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548395

Baptised: Thomas (BK17301)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 26.
22. jan. 1801. Niels Jensen og Anne Marie Thomasdatter, hiemmedøbt Thomas Daaben d. 22. Februarii. Qv faddere: Peder Høygaards Enke Maren Christensdatter og Maren Jensdatter. Mands faddere: Peder Christensen, Lars Pedersen, Thomas Sørensen. Introd. 1. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548398

More about Niels Jensen and this family:

Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 116, , 140, FT-1801, B8161
Niels Jensen Sort 35 Gift Mand Daglejer
Ane Marie Thomasdatter 32 Gift Hans kone 
Dorthe Nielsdatter 10 Ugift Deres barn   
Inger Marie Nielsdatter 8 Ugift Deres barn   
Bodil Sophie Nielsdatter 4 Ugift Deres barn 
Karen Nielsdatter 2 Ugift Deres barn   
Thomas Nielsen 1Ugift Deres barn

I have not yet found Anne Marie Thomasdatter dead. (Dead between 1800-1823)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Niels Jensen married again:

Census:

Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, St. Hans Kirkelod, 14 F3, FT-1834, C5684
Niels Jensen Sort 67 Gift Arbeidsmand   
Maren Hansdatter 60 Gift hans Kone 
Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter 11 Ugift deres Datter (Baptism not yet found in Sanct Olai)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Niels Jensen Sort died April 20th. 1845, buried the 26th. in Sanct Olai sogn, 82 years old. He was poor and died from old age weakness.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930


Kind Regards

Karin.


NB. Cindi. Note this forum is different from Facebook. When writing an answer you´ll unfortunately only be permitted to edit for 30 minutes. You can choose to se your answer with pressing "forhåndsvisning" while you are working on your answer - and wait to press send untill you are fairly sure to be done.

I hope I got Niels and family right :-D
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Karin Andersen

Hi again  :)

Jørgens brother Mikkel Jensen (Sort) (BK17289)

Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767 +/-) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148

Michel baptised:
21. aug. 1768. No churchbook record available. Date known because of note from his communion.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194

Communion:
Tornby sogn. 1788. Konfirmeret Michel Jensen døbt Dom 12. p. Trinit [21. aug.]1768
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194

Marriage:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 40.
1797. Dec. 12. Trolovet ung karl Mikkel Jensen (BK17289) fra Tiirup med Pigen Kirsten Laursdatter (BK17481) Forlovere Kiøbmand  Klausen? og Snedkermester Svend Lund af Hiøring og xxvied d. 23. jan. 98.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548412

Baptism: Inger Marie (BK17482)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 22.   
1798. Juni d. 7. Mickel Jensen og hustru Kirsten Laursdatter hiemmedøbt Inger Marie konf. d. 8. Juli. Q.F.: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267), Karen Nyegaards Datter. M. F.: Stephen Madsen, Niels Jensen (BK17288),  Peder Jensen (BK17290).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548394
Note: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267)  is the wife of Mickels brother Jørgen Jensen (BK17265)


Baptism: Else (BK17483)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 24.   
1799. d. 5. okt. Mickel Jensen Sort og hustru Kirsten Laurs Datter, Else hiemmedøbt Conf. d. 3. Nov. Q.F.: Maren Nielsdatter Rebslager kone og Ane              fra Wandsted? M. F.: Niels Jensen (BK17288) i Hiøring, Peder Jensen (BK17290) hos Købmand Løth og Christen Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548396

More about this family:

Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn, Schibsbye, , 24, FT-1801, B8401
Michel Jensen 50 Gift Mand Inderster og hand inrouleret Matros  (He is a sailor)
Else Nielsdatter 48 Gift hans Kone 
Inger Michelsdatter 3 Ugift deres Barn 
Else Michelsdatter 2 Ugift deres Barn

Note, no Jens Nielsen or Inger Nielsdatter as witnesses to any of these baptisms.

Kind Regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Karin Andersen

Hi.  :)

Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK2899) Jens Nielsen
(BK17288) 188. Niels Jensen - Tornbye - 25 (born 1764) - 62 - Brønderup.
(BK17265) 189. Jørgen Jensen - Tornbye - 24 (born 1765) - 61 - Skibsbye - Hsmand.
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769) - 61 - Svagelieg?  - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148

Jørgens brother Peder is a little more tricky than the others.


First what we do know about Peder Jensen:


Peder Jensen (Sort) (BK17290)

From the military roll 1789:

Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769 +/-) - 61 - Svagelieg?  - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148

Baptism: Peder
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Tornby sogn. 1739FKVD-1798FKVD. Opsl. 5.
1770. 9. Samme dag [1. juli] blev Jens Nielsen (BK2899) og Inger Nielsdatters (BK17291) Barns Daab forkÿndt for Menigheden som tilforn var hiemmedøbt og kaldet Peder. Peder Christensens hustru bar Barnet. Faddere: Anders Lilholt, Christen Thomsen, Jens Olesen, Jens Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645091

Military roll 1793 A:
Lægdsrullen Sejlstrup.
Jens Nielsen.
Han er streget over i lægdsrullen. Peder Jensen. Tornby. 2x?, 63. Fuglsig. Begæret af godsejeren.
(His name is stretched over after demand from his land owner. Meaning not available for military service other than the landowners).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My guess is, this would be him, but it is to be further investigated:


Marriage:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. 42.
1800. 31. okt. viede 28. nov. Peder Jensen (BK17290) her af Byen og Pigen Anne Marie Povlsdatter (BK17492). Forlovere undertegnede: Niels Christensen og Niels Jensen (BK17288).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414

The 1787 census doesn`t give an answer about his whereabouts, only some guesses about which one of the Peder Jensen might  be him.

The census 1801 is a little better. Here I can find a Anne Marie Poulsen, married, but her husband not mentioned at the same address.
However....??? Just next door, a married Peder Jensen lives without his wife. Might his age here (51) be wrong? Did the writer make a mistake?

Anne Marie Poulsdatter in census 1801:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 91, , 117, FT-1801, B8161
Maren Andersdatter 63 Enke Tilleje boende Haandarbejde   
Anne Marie Poulsdatter 35 Gift Hendes datter
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897191

Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 90, , 115, FT-1801, B8161
Jens Jørgensen 53 Gift Husbonde Avlsbruger   
Woldborg Pedersdatter 63 Gift Hans kone 
Peder Jensen 51 Gift Tjenestefolk  (fejlskrivning for 31 år?)
Ane Cathrine Andersdatter 19 Ugift Tjenestefolk 
Apellone Hansdatter 10 Ugift Tjenestefolk 
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897190

Kind Regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Cyndilou

Karin,
WOW you've done a lot of work.  I had to set it aside for some special family events but I should be able to get back to it now. 


CitatSorry for writing these notes mostly in Danish, but I think you know most of the words by now. If not, just ask.
no worries about this.  apparently this forum translates the words so I see most of them in English.  Sometimes it is mixed.  I write in English but when I go back and look some is in English and some is in Danish.  Almost makes it look like I know Danish.   :D 8)

I am hoping to look, in depth, at all that you have found a little later today.  Just glancing over this with the little time I have this morning it looks like you've found the families of Jørgen's brothers.  later today I hope to look at all the witnesses for each family and see if there is any in common. 
Thank you for all your efforts.  we'll be in touch soon. 

THANK YOU SO MUCH! 
keep smiling and have a happy day,
Cyndi

Cyndilou

Karin:

I've been putting all the information you found in a spreadsheet to look at.  There is a lot here. I hope to look at it more closely tomorrow. 

I have been searching some as well and I think I may have found Niels Jensen Sort's wife's death

CitatI have not yet found Anne Marie Thomasdatter dead. (Dead between 1800-1823)
Could this be Anne Marie Thomasdatter?  I can't tell for sure what the Niels in this record's last name is but it kind of looks like Sort. 
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261
1st one under 1826


Cyndilou

#54
ok some of my observations:

Niels Jensen
Finding Niels Jensen 2nd marriage record caused me momentarily to wonder if we've been following the wrong Jorgen Jensen.
Maybe my Jorgen Jensen is not the Jorgen Jensen one of 4 brothers found in the military rolls.  

Though, we do see all of the other brother's names as witnesses at different baptisms for all the brothers you have found.  
However only Peder Sort ever shows up at the baptisms of Jorgen's children.  
And none of the other Jensen boys who show up at the baptisms of those you found have the name SORT after them.

However.... This marriage record does show a Niels Jensen SORT.  so that confirms we have found at least 3 of the 4 boys with the name SORT.  But the marriage record of Niels SORT shows the wrong date to be the Niels Jensen in the military rolls.

According to this marriage record for Niels Jensen SORT's 2nd marriage he was 58 in 1827.  That would make his birth year about 1769.  Niels, one of the 4 brothers in the military rolls, was born abt 1764.  
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source140233/opslag15468230

Am I overthinking this?  ;)  Which of the parish records are the most accurate?   Can they be off the birth date by that much?


There is a  Niels Jensen (No SORT in his name)  in this death record which you found, showing he was 82 in 1845 making his birth year 1763 (which does work with the military record).  
Citathttps://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930

By the way, what is this record?  
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
It is typed and so easy to read  :) and it looks to me like other family members are listed as well.  
Is there one of these record books for the Tornby parish?  

What does the word "tienende" mean after Niels Jensen's name in this Marriage record?
 
CitatHjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 38.
4. marts 1791 unge Karl Niels Jensen(BK17288) tienende Peder Mikkelsen i Brønderup og Pigen Ane Marie Thomasdatter (BK17296) af Hiøring. Forlovere: Christen Christensen af Brønderup og Peder Mikkelsen ibid. Ægteviede d. 25. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548410


Now on to PEDER Jensen Sort

Thanks for finding:  
1800 Marriage of Peder Jensen to Anne Marie Poulsdatter looks like they were married in Hjorring parish.  
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414


Citat1801 Census there is an Anne Marie Poulsen married but husband not mentioned at same address
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897191

HOWEVER next door, a married Peder Jensen lives without his wife.  Might his age here 51, be wrong? Did the writer make a mistake?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897190
Very interesting.  Why would a couple newly married not be living together?
Maybe she was just visiting her mother when the census taker came by?  

I looked through the Hjorring, St Hans and St Olai Parishes from 1801 through 1806 and couldn't see any children born to this union, although very hard to read many.  

The closest I could see was this one - Incredibly hard to read - 3rd from the bottom.  
Maybe 26 Feb - It looks like the parents are a Peder and  Anne but probably not the right last names.  
But it caught my eye becasue the witnesses include Niels Jensen and Peder Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401


There is another Peder Jensen I was looking at:


Peder Jensen birth 1771 married to Johanne Iversdatter living in Tornby - NØRRE TORNBYE 1801
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557180 
looks like Johanne  remarries Dec 20 1817 in Tornby which means Peder died before 1817
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902212
There is a peder jensen who died sept 1817.  Which then of course can't be our peder because he was a witness at Zidsel Marie Jorgensdatter's baptism Oct 4 1817 (Jorgen's daughter)
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn435/churchbook/source136962/opslag14902243


I don't understand the military rolls well enough yet.  I have a friend, who in a week or so, who will spend some time and try to teach me.  In the meantime.... This one you posted

CitatMilitary roll 1793 A:
Lægdsrullen Sejlstrup.
Jens Nielsen.
Han er streget over i lægdsrullen. Peder Jensen. Tornby. 2x?, 63. Fuglsig. Begæret af godsejeren.
(His name is stretched over after demand from his land owner. Meaning not available for military service other than the landowners).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229
Am I to understand Peder is in Fuglsig, Sankt Olai in 1793? How old are they when they are no longer tracked?

While looking for peder and Ann's children I came across this record from Hjorring Parish:
Looks like maybe another child for Niels Jensen Sort and Ane Marie Thomasdatter but I can't read it.  
Last record left side
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400

Looks like I have lots of questions and so I thought to make things easier I would recap them all in one list. :)

1. Am I overthinking this?  Are will still following the correct Jorgen Jensen?
2. Which of the parish records are the most accurate....can they be off the birth date by 5 or more years?  
3. What is this record and is there a book like this for other parishes such as Tornby?
   https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
4. What does the word "tienende" mean
5. Were you able to read the birth record for a Peder and Ann? Are they the wrong last names?
   https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401

6. Am I understanding correctly: Peder is in Fuglsig, Sankt Olai in 1793? (from the military roll) How old are they when they are no longer tracked?
7. Is this another child for Niels Jensen and Ane Marie Thomasdatter?
   https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400
From a previous post:
8. Is this Niels Jensen's wife Anne Marie Thomasdatter's death record:
  https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261



I can't tell you how much I appreciate this help.  It's great!
Gratefully,
Cyndi


Karin Andersen

Hi Cindi  :)


Great idéa with the question list.

I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.

No. 1.
I think we are following the right Jørgen Jensen. The name Jørgen is not that common in this area. I am aware there is another Jørgen Jensen in the area, but I am convinced he is a lot older than your Jørgen.

No. 2.
It is not easy to establish which record would be the most accurate. They have different purposes.
Lots of people couldn´t read or write and if you had a child born the year the mill broke down or the year someones farm burned down, it is pretty hard to keep track of which year it actually was. 
Usually I think we would say it is the church book. Here it is important to note it is the baptisms that are on record, not the time of birth. I have seen a child baptized 6 years after birth.

Usually you can follow the different church events from the date to date, year after year and sometimes you forget that at the time back then, the church books was nothing else than the priests book for accounting. It was made to show the Bishop how much work the Priest did. You will sometimes see the price people gave for the service. A lot of Priests did not write down the baptisms of their own children (They didn´t pay themselves)

When I wrote about Niels Jensen (Sort) (BK17288) I forgot this note telling the date of Nielses baptism.

Tornby sogn. 1782. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen døbt 25. marts 1763
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645192

I believe this is your Niels. It illustrate the problems we have with. I would consider this note to show the correct birth year, because the priest who wrote it actually had access to the now missing church books notes. All the other info we have is due to peoples memory.

The censuses were made after several epidemics of pest, and was "only" made in order to count the population. The age of the people counted was only important in the sense it could give the authorities an estimate of how many would be able to pay tax and how many would be available for military service (- before the invention of the military rolls). 

No. 3.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
This is a register someone has made and it makes searching a lot easier. Unfortunately not all parishes has one.

No. 4.
"tienende" is now the Danish word tjenende and means you are working for someone.

No. 5.
I read it as Peder Pedersen and Anne Nielsdatter, so not yours.

No. 6.
Yes Peder is working in Fuglsig (big farm) in 1793. I am absolutely not an expert in the militaryrolls, but I think I know they leave their fathers name, so to speak when they become head of their own household.

No. 7.
Yes.
D. 3. april. Niels Jensen Sort og Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Marie i? kirke d. 7. april. Q. f. Karen xxxxxxdtr? i Seoxxx? og Birgitte Jensdat., xx Hartman. Mande fadder: Jens Paaskesen, Jens Præst?, Anders Christensen og Thomas Nielsen. (Introd.) Samme dag. (Same day)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400

No. 8.
Yes I think you found Ane Marie Thomasdatters burial.

Kind Regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Cyndilou

Karin,
You are so kind to keep answering my many questions.  Thank you

If this date is accurate he couldn't be Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter's son...they didn't get married until 1765
CitatTornby sogn. 1782. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen døbt 25. marts 1763
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645192

How does one find out if a parish has this type of record?
CitatNo. 3.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
This is a register someone has made and it makes searching a lot easier. Unfortunately not all parishes has one.

I've been working all day on this and looking back at past notes.  I have a question about the military roll for Niels
I really don't understand the rolls at all.  On this one for Niels, which number is he?  I found a Niels #142 that is age 26 height 62 but it looks like a different father. 
Citat(BK17288) Niels Jensen - Tornbye - (age=) 26 - (hight=) 62 - (whereabouts=) Brønderup.
Age 1793 = 26 (born 1767 +/-)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229


thank you kindly,
Cyndi

Karin Andersen

Hi Cindi  :)

You are welcome. I get to find some info about my own ancestors at the same time  :)

Oh, I am so sorry. You are right. I was a little too fast. I mixed up to of my Niels Jensens.

It should have been this konfirmation of a Niels Jensen (because of the wedding date and year for Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter.

Tornby sogn. 1784. Dom Qvasid. d. 18. april.  Konfirmeret Niels Jensen (BK17288) døbt Dom Palme [23. marts] 1766
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645193

To check if any register is made for a parish you can use the link to the state archives.
https://www.sa.dk/da/brug-arkivet/arkivalieronline-se-originale-dokumenter-paa-nettet/

Choose church books (Kirkebøger)

Choose Church books from the whole country. (Kirkebøger fra hele landet)

Fill in Amt (the bigger area/county) (We are working with Hjørring Amt)

Choose Arkiv.
and choose parish. (this register is from  Hjørring, Sankt Hans sogn)

You now get 3 choises.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/geo/geo-collection/5

The last  one is the register.
If a register is available it will be shown at the bottom of the lists of available books for the parish you have chosen. A lot of the official registers are only available for the bigger cities, not often for the smaller parishes in the countryside. However a lot of people have made registers for the parishes they have been working with and have been kind enough to make them accessable for all of us by putting them on the internet. To google for info is always a good source for info.

Kind Regards  :)

Karin


Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Cyndilou

#58
Britta:
Are you still with us?  

Can I ask you some more questions about the Military rolls you posted?

CitatPlease follow him in the Military Levying Rolls:
12_189 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 listed in Tornby + his brothers

Hovedrulle Hjørring 1795  28_140/106 (lægd 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485

Hovedrulle 1798 28_106/84 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059940
Going to 17_K97 [lægd 17 = Rubjerg in 1802]

17_K98 His son Søren Jørgensen born on March 18, 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18300,1061643

Hovedrulle 1803_17_97/68 Jørgen Jensen
                1803_17_98/69 his son Søren Jørgensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061898

You mention for the 1789 Rolls, what is the time frame of the other rolls you found?  
CitatThe 1789 Military Rolls were written in the period Nov. 1789 - Oct. 1790

I'm struggling with the birth years for all the boys (to fit the births of 4 boys between 23 March 1766, a birth year Karin found in a confirmation for Niels and 1 July 1770 when we Know that Peder was born, so I thought I would see what I could learn from the rolls you found.

Year  
Name, age
1789
Niels 25
Jorgen 24
Mikkel 22
Peder 20

1795 (are they not found in 1792?)
Niels 29 (6 years later only 4 years older)
Jorgan 28 (6 years later only 4 years older)
Where are Mikkel and Peder?

1798
Jorgen 31 (what is the word that is not crossed out - between his name and age?)
Is that Niels right below Jorgen crossed out (104/85)?  If Yes can you tell me what all the notes say?
and again, where are Mikkel and Peder?

1803 (5 years between?)
Jorgen 35
where are Niels, Mikkel, and Peder?  (I'm assuming, if that is Niels in 1798, that he dropped off the rolls)
and, I'm assuming that Jens Nielsen is still alive?  since he is still listed over his boys? 

Thank you much for all your help,
gratefully,
Cyndi


Cyndilou

#59
Karin:

Thank you for guiding me through finding those other registers.

I'm still going through all the wonderful information you have found.  

CitatNiels Jensen married again:
Census:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, St. Hans Kirkelod, 14 F3, FT-1834, C5684
Niels Jensen Sort 67 Gift Arbeidsmand    
Maren Hansdatter 60 Gift hans Kone  
Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter 11 Ugift deres Datter (Baptism not yet found in Sanct Olai)

could this record below be the Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter found in the census with Niels Jensen and his 2nd wife Maren Hansdatter?
I've put together a spreadsheet showing where everyone lived and when.  Looks like Niels Jensen spent most of his life in Hjørring parish.  I'm not sure when he moved there from Tornby.  
So I looked for the record of Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter in Hjørring rather than Sanct Olai.  an 1845 census I found for her also says she was born in Hjørring.
In this record it looks like Maren Hansdatter is the mother but the father's name doesn't look like a name to give Maren Kirstine the last name of Nielsdatter.....could Niels have adopted her?  

Oct 25 1823 in Hjørring parish - very last record "Maren Kirstine"
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source10036/opslag69004

If the birth of Niels is 23 March 1766 and Michel is 21 Aug 1768 Isn't that really pushing it to have another child (Jørgan) in between those 2?
Without any more information given in those confirmation records, and with as many Niels Jensens as their are, I don't know how we can tell which one is ours.  
 
CitatIt should have been this konfirmation of a Niels Jensen (because of the wedding date and year for Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter.
Tornby sogn. 1784. Dom Qvasid. d. 18. april.  Konfirmeret Niels Jensen (BK17288) døbt Dom Palme [23. marts] 1766
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645193

CitatMichel baptised:
21. aug. 1768. No churchbook record available. Date known because of note from his communion.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194


Thanks for sticking with me on this ;)
with gratitude,
Cyndi