Family GOLDT in Kobenhavn before 1750 - from Slesvig ?

Startet af Christina Kaul, 14 Okt 2018 - 21:59

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Christina Kaul

Hi, my direct ancestor Jacob Goldt was born in 1798 in Kobenhavn and baptised in St. Petri Church. He was a specialised carpenter and left Denmark, marrying in 1825 a young widow in Vienna / Austria. Jacob died in Vienna in 1835.

I am looking for the birth records of his grandfather and his granduncle.

His father was Detlef Jacob Goldt born in 1749 in Kobenhavn (Garnison Kirke), who was an office clerk and married in 1791 in St. Petri Church Anna Elisabeth Speis from Haderslev. According to a Copenhagen census she should be born around 1764 but I could not find either birth nor death record.

Jacob's grandfather was Hinrich Detlef Goldt, an 'Auditeur with the Lifeguard on foot', which is a military lawyer. He married in 1746 in St. Petri Drude Sophia Witten, who was born around 1717, probably in Kobenhavn as she had her confirmation in St. Petri. Drude died in 1788 (Koge St. Nicolai). I am in particular looking for birth date and place of Hinrich Detlef.

Hinrich Detlef had a brother Timotheus. He was rentenmester for Slesvig-Holstein. He married in 1749 in Helsingør Susanne Reusch. He died in 1783 and his age at death points towards a birth date around 1705-1710.

It could well be that the two brothers are from the town of Slesvig.

There is a Johan Ditlef Goldt, born in Slesvig in 1714, who was first a customs officer in Assens / Fyn and later in Ribe where he also died. He might be a third brother. I tried to find his birth entry but understand that the early church records from Slesvig can only be checked on microfilm in the Danish Central Archive in Kobenhavn (is this correct ?).

Thanks in advance if you can provide me with any tips how to research further on the Goldt family.

Best regards from Brussels,

Christina

Inger Buchard

The former leader of the archive in Viborg (Jutland) Nygaard left a large list of names called 'Nygaards sedler'
Take a look around
Johan Detlev Goldt
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115787&sort=e
He was buried in Ribe Domsogn/Ribe Kathedral parish 26.10.1776

He came from Assens to Ribe 12.5.1767
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115790&sort=e

where he had a son Bartholomäus
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115783&sort=e

His widow Katrine Wewerking (or Kjerrumgaard) aged 60 lived 1787 in Ribe with her daughter Frederikke Margrete aged 24
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115784&sort=e
quoted from the census 1787 of Ribe

1801 she still lived in Ribe
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115785&sort=e
quoted from the census 1801 of Ribe
with two daughters
Kristiane Kristine aged 40 unmarried (she dies 1812 http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115801&sort=e )
Frederikke Margrethe aged 37 unmarried
and a granddaughter
Luise Sofie Margrete Lemphert aged 14

Other Goldts probably related to Johan Detlev Goldt:
Anna Bolette Goldt, witnessing a baptism in Ribe 1776
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115769&sort=e
She marries 1785 Johannes Vasard
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115768&sort=e
=>
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=397666&sort=e

She dies 1815 in Lunde
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115771&sort=e

Jacobine Rebekka Goldt marries 1786 Karl Fr. Lemphert
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115779&sort=e
=>
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=227823&sort=e

Another possible daughter Matthiae Goldt witnesses a baptism in Ribe 1769
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115804&sort=e and 1773
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115805&sort=e
She marries 1776 Christian Lang http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115806&sort=e
=>
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=221087&sort=e

In Ribe there is also before 1800 this family:
Karoline Goldt married to Jens Rahr
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=307101&sort=e
Jens Rahr dies 1787
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=307116&sort=e
Sofie Karoline Goldt, widow of Jens Rahr dies in Ribe 1828 aged 84
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115813&sort=e

A possible son of Johan Detlev
Mathias Joakim Goldt later apparently a doctor in Norway
born in Assens 1759
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=115807&sort=e

Another active researcher has made a list of officers in the Danish army
Goldt starts here with Bartholomäus Goldt
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17202077#198722,37656596

The church books of the town Schleswig can be seen by Danish citizens in the Danish State Archive(s). From Belgium you'd have to contact the church book office of the 'Nordkirche' in Kappeln east of Flensburg
https://www.kirchenkreis-schleswig-flensburg.de/kirchenkreis/kirchenkreisarchiv/kirchenbuchamt.html

Inger Buchard
Redaktør på DIS-Wiki

Inger Toudal

#2

Seems Hinrich Detlef Goldt died around 1755:

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Goldt   Mandens erhverv:    Auditeur ved Foed-Garden
Mand død (ja/nej):    Ja
Hustru død (ja(nej):    Nej
Hustrus forsørgelse:    ligeledes [Pension?]   Hustrus alder:    52     [wife's, i.e widow's age: 52]
Hustrus civilstand:    Enke   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Enkestand antal år:    16   Antal uforsørgede børn:    3   [had been a widow for 16 years, 3 children not of age)
Sogn:    Herfølge   Herred:    Bjæverskov
Amt:    Præstø   Stednavn:    4
Indtastningsnr:    C2358   Løbenr.:    144

- source: http://ddd.dda.dk/soeg_oeders.asp

Roskilde, Ramsø, Køge Købstad, Kiøge Kiøbstad, Kirkestrædet No 145, , FT-1787, C1973
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Postition in household:     Occupation:
Drude Sophie With     70     Enke      Hosbonde      Auditeur Goldtes Enke Frue. Nyder aarlig 100 rd Pension af Krigs Cassen.       
Catharine Goldt     35     Ugift      Hendes Datter             
Birthe Jørgensdatter     32     Ugift      Tieneste Pige      
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

København, København (Staden), Klædebo Kvarter, Nørregade, No. 227 - 2den Familie, 1017, FT-1787, B5764
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Postition in household:     Occupation:     
Susanna Goldt     63     Enke      Huusmoder      Enke efter Just Goldt forhen Comiteret i Rente Cammeret, har Pension RD 250        
Johanne Henriette Goldt     34     Ugift      Hendes Datter              
Karen Peders     30     Ugift      Tienestepige  
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Indskyder
Enkekassenummer:  2999
Matthias Joachim Goldt Doctor Medicus i Romsdale
Født: 17-06-1759 Assens   Stempelmærke: Danmark
Død: 27-10-1808
Notat: Dåbsattest i RA.

Hustru:
Policenummer:  2999
Pensionspolice oprettet:     21-09-1791
Årlig Pension:     150     Indbetalt:  728    Afdragsordning:  0
Kirstina Margaritha Worm Møller
Født: 02-02-1771 Molde   Stempelmærke: Norge
Død: 02-09-1801
Notat: Dåbsattest i RA.

Indskyder
Enkekassenummer:  10354
Bartholomæus von Goldt Ritmester og ved Liwregiment lette Dragoner
Født: 02-10-1767 Ribe Domkirke   Stempelmærke: Danmark
Død: 24-01-1849
Notat: Dåbsattest i RA.

Hustru:
Policenummer:  10354
Pensionspolice oprettet:     19-03-1804
Årlig Pension:     200     Indbetalt:  826    Afdragsordning:  0
Carolina Dorothea Ditlevina Friis
Født: 17-01-1776 Itzehoe   Stempelmærke: Holsten
Død: 04-02-1848
Notat: Dåbsattest i RA

- source: http://fogsgaard.org/index.php/2013-11-01-14-49-57/sogindskyder

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Inger Toudal
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Inger Toudal

Christina Kaul

Dear Ingers,

Thanks for all the data. When I was looking for the Goldt family in Kobenhavn, I came upon Johan Detlev Goldt in Assens and Ribe. A lot of data is available about him and his children. As he was born on 17 April 1714 in Slesvig he could be a brother of Heinrich Detlev and Timotheus. This is why I want to check the church books of Slesvig to identify his parents and find additional siblings.

Can non-Danes not consult the files in the archive in Kobenhavn ? I am in Kobenhavn regularly, so I could arrange myself to go to the Archive.

Thanks a lot for the reference to Heinrich Detlef Goldt having died in 1755 - his three known children were born in 1748, 1749 and 1750. Daughter Catharina is the oldest child born in 1748, my ancestor Detlef Jacob is born in 1749. I will check in Garnison Song, where the three children were born, if I can find a death entry for Heinrich Detlev.

Drude Witten is Heinrich Detlef's wife, Susanna Goldt is Timotheus' wife. I found death entries for Drude 1788, Susanna 1803 and Timotheus 1783.

Christina

Inger Buchard

To get access to the microfiches of the churchbooks of Schleswig at the Rigsarkiv in Copenhagen you have to be a resident in Denmark. Otherwise you have to use the German system, i.e. write the church archive in Kappeln and ask mr. Carstensen to look up the birth. He is a very helpful person. The costs are mentioned here:
https://www.kirchenkreis-schleswig-flensburg.de/kirchenkreis/kirchenkreisarchiv/kirchenbuchamt/gebuehrenordnung-kirchliches-archiv.html

Inger Buchard
Redaktør på DIS-Wiki

Grethe Leerbech

Hey Christina

Another possibility is to ask any danes here, if she or he would look it up for you at the archieve in Copenhagen.
I think there will be someone who would help you when they are arriving at the archieve for other reasons conc. familysearch

Grethe Leerbech
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Inger Toudal


You must be a Danish citizen, or German citizen with permanent residence in Denmark, in order to use the microfiche cards of church records
from Southern Schleswig at the Danish National Archives. 

Without special permission from Nordelbisches Kirchenarkiv in Kiel, you may only use the microfiche cards for your own genealogical research.

https://www.sa.dk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Sydslesvigske-kirkeboeger.pdf

https://www.sa.dk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Blanket-laan-af-slesvigske-mikrokort.pdf
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This could be Timotheus:

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Goldt   Mandens erhverv:    vert, Camme Raad, Renteskriver
Mandens alder:    66   Mandens civilstand:    Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:    2   Mand død (ja/nej):    Nej
Hustru død (ja/nej):    Nej   Hustrus alder:    48
Hustrus civilstand:    Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Sogn:    Snarens Kvarter   Herred:    København (Staden)
Amt:    København   Stednavn:    37b
Indtastningsnr:    C6225   Løbenr.:    380

- source: http://ddd.dda.dk/soeg_oeders.asp

Hinrich Detlev Goldt: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17202077#198722,37656598

- died 22 Nov. 1754. Maybe more info can be found at the National Archives in Copenhagen?

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Inger T.
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Inger Toudal

Christina Kaul

Thanks Inger,

thanks really great that you found the death date of Heinrich Detlef Goldt. I checked and I could not find his death in the church book of Garnison Sogne, where his children were born in 1748 to 1750. Unfortunately no age - I assume the date 1739 refers to when he joined the Lifeguard? Does that give any idea for his age ? How would I go about in the National archive to see if there is anything more on Heinrich Detlef Goldt ? Are there personell files on army officers ? Would the national archive also have something on Thimotheus Goldt ? He was a government official, so a file should exist ?

I am not sure the Flensburg archive will be ready to check the church book on eventual siblings of Johan Detlev Goldt - so it would be easier if I can do this myself. My husband is Danish but we are living in Belgium - not sure if he qualifies as a Danish resident. But I will find a solution for this.

I also need to find out why Drude Witten lived in Køge and sourroundings. I thought she was from København because she had her confirmation at St. Petri Church. And her death 1788 is registered in St. Nicolai church in Kobenhavn.

Regards,

Christina

Inger Toudal


https://www.sa.dk/da/hjaelp-og-vejledning/rigsarkivets-online-vejledninger/haerens-mandskabslister-kom-godt-i-gang/
Citat

  -  1747 – ca. 1920

    Tip:
    Danske og norske officerer i perioden 1648-1814 er beskrevne i en alfabetisk fortegnelse med personlige data og karriereoplysninger:
    Hirsch' kartotek over danske og norske officerer

- that's the index where Hinrich Detlev Goldt can be found. I hope somebody else can guide you how to find him in the miliitary records.

You could contact the Danish National Archives and ask whether Danish citizens living abroad have access to the church records from Southern Schleswig:

https://www.sa.dk/en/about-us/contact/

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Inger T.
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Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal


Hinrich D Gold's burial record 29 Nov. 1754 is in Sankt Petri:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17118447#156139,26145177 - No 138

- 48 years old

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Inger T.
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Inger Toudal

Christina Kaul

Hi Inger,
Thanks a lot again. I don't know why I did not look in St Petri again as Heinrich Detlef Goldt married there.
So I now have roughly the birth years of the three Goldts:
Timotheus – 1705
Heinrich Detlef – 1706
Johan Detlef – 17.4.1714 in Slesvig
I will now see how I can best proceed with the Slesvig records and see with the National Archive if there is any more information on officers and civil servants available.
Again, thanks to all of you – great help !
Christina

Grethe Leerbech

Hey Christina

I looked the carpenters guild book - journeymens protokol - up to see if i could find Jacob Goldt.
I didn't find him but I found another person:  I think he could be in your family

headprotocol 1729, opslag 119 of 450
1729 dito dato (19. november 9  lod Johan Hendrich Golt sig indskrive for lauget /lavet in Halle hos M. Gotfred Diderich altgesehl Morten Skovman. Morten maybe the man who came with the information or maybe he is the whitness because they all have an "altgesehl" named in the book. 


1729 ditto dato (19. november) did Johan Hendrich Golt register in the guild in Halle at M (for master) gotfried Diderrich altgesehl (old journeyman) Morten Skovmann 

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=19981731#273134,52127197

Halle is a town in germany.. I din't find him as apprentice, but the books are not complete.

Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Christina Kaul

Hi Grethe,

Jacob actually was not a carpenter but a turner, that is someone who turns wood into round pieces. I don't know if this was considered the same or a different profession.

I don't know how common the name Goldt was in Denmark. During my research in Kobenhavn church books I found only a few families. But I know that there is also the name Goldt in Abenraa around 1720.

I suspect that Thimoteus and Heinrich Detlef were brothers (or close cousins) as Heinrich Detlef is always mentioned in the birth entries of Thimoteus' children.

If the Johan Detlef Goldt you found went to Halle in 1729, would he be born around 1700 like Timotheus and Heinrich Jacob? Is there any way one could find out where this 'new' Johann Detlef is coming from ?

If the Slesvig church books don't deliver anything of relevance, my best bet probably is the national archive with military and civil servants files.

Regards, Christina


Grethe Leerbech

I think you are right, about the name goldt, I think they com from 1 or 2 families-

i have not found so much about your wanted people, but something about Johannes Detlef Goldt, He was Costum officer in Ribe earlier in Assens . he died in Ribe domsogn 1779 burried 26.10 he was 67 years old. He as married with Cathrine Kierrumgård dead 1809.
They had a daughter Catharine Elisabth Goldt, who married Otto reinhold brummer in Ribe domsogn 18.12.1778 . she was born in assens 12.9. 1749, who also became costumer officer- he was former officer at the swedish army and Secundofficer at the Jydske infanterie regiment  (Se  slektgrenen brummer af karl Hård, Lidingø)
.
another daughter Sophie caroline Goldt born 5.11.1744 in Assens . died 1828 - married Jens Rasmussen Rahr, who was a merchant and destiller in Ribe .
She was much yunger than he, because she was bethroted to his son, who died, and she was pregnant- it is a story because the marrying has not be found in ribe

Johan Detlef Goldt was born in Schlesvig in 1714. 

Fra bogen "Den danske lægestand fra 1648 -
finder vi en søn af Johannes Detlef Goldt = Mathias Joakim Goldt.  born 17.6.1759 in Assens, dead 27.10 in Molde in Norway. studied in ribe became a doctor in norway in reknæs Hospital merried Margtehe Worm møller.

and we also find an
Johan Golt, from Zwolle in nederland. immatriculated in Wittemberg in 1539 came fro m leipzig to denmark 25. march 1554 and became Lifemedicus and physicus at christian II, but left denmark in 1556.  (maybe of no relevance9

only to say that that the family ey could come from both Schleswig and holstein. See also an Jacob Heinrich Goldt from 1708-1775 who was a violin maker or builder from Hamburg his father was Samuel Goldt

but unfortunately i haven't faound anything about Timothus, Heinrich Detlef
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Grethe Leerbech

Just found another detail of the puzzle

se here:
" 92 Gold, Detlev, Royal Copist, 42 Timotheus , councelor of justice. , 76 Christopher, son of Timotheus Goldt. , 19 Ditlef, Costum officer in Ribe, oktbr. 79.  Drude, Sophie, born Witte Widow after auditeur? (Whom) maybee Rahr, Oktbr. 88 in Køge, 71. Henriette, Dorothea daughter of auditeur Goldt.
I think the years refer to the year when they died. But if timotheus died in 1742 i don't know what church i should look in.

https://docplayer.dk/65064178-Dette-vaerk-er-downloadet-fra-slaegtsforskernes-bibliotek.html

It is a view of dead people in denmark taken from the "newpaper" "ADRESSEAVISEN"

Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Grethe Leerbech

Hay again Christina

This is what i found about Timotheus :

Timotheus Goldt, clerk in the 2nd Schleswigske renteskriveroffice , Chamber writer! (office clerk) in the schleswigske-Holstenske chamber from maj 1735, chamber writer in 2nd Schleswigske office (I think it is office clerk to write letters and copy them in protocols etc.) he had that job from 8 august 1747 to 6 june 1771. Chamber writer in commerce- and fabricoffice in german chamber 28 sept. 1771, commitet in the treasury 14 jan. 1773. jusitsråd - councelor of justice - 10. maj 1776 , pension 21. december 1778 .
If he is born in 1705 he is 73 years old. And cannot be dead in 1742 but after 1778- so i don't know what the number 42 refers to in the abovementioned book.

Grethe     
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Inger Toudal


Easier to read here: https://dis-danmark.dk/bibliotek/907030.pdf

- Deaths in Denmark 1761 - 90, compiled from Adresseavisen by V. Richter  (p. 43 in the pdf-file, p. 40 in the book)

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Grethe Leerbech

Here is Thimotheus dead.

Sct. petri church- The german church in Copenhagen

ttps://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=156146#156146,26146959


The 30th of januar in the town church yard burried Hr. justitsråd Thimotheus Gold  76 years old- (and then it is written what he died of. something with Cancer....)  D. Münter threw earth on.. with double choir .
maybe one still can see his tombstone in the yard.....
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Inger Toudal


100 years deaths in Denmark 1791 - 1890, by V. Richter: http://www.rosekamp.dk/V_Richter_All/Start.htm

http://www.rosekamp.dk/V_Richter_All/G_image.pdf - page 25 in the pdf-file (page 381 in the book)

København, København (Staden), Nørre Kvarter, Nørre Kvarter, , 223, FT-1801, A5031
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Postition in household:     Occupation:
Susanne Goldz     77     Enke            Har Pension       
Ane Mejsler     27     Ugift            Tj. Pige       
Ole Nielsen     34     Ugift            Tømmersvend       
Peder Nielsen     28     Ugift            Arb.M.

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Grethe Leerbech

#19
Hey again

Before I leave for the evening, I will like to inform you about  that I think it is possible to see some of the letters conc. Thimotheus appointments  and jobs , because you have the month and year.


Here is both Thimotius and Johannes Detlef in an overview  with reference to the books where to se the appointments
I read that Johannes was Laqai at the Archprince  in Ostfriesland -so maybe the family comes from there  

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=18484342#236996,45105242

The register is called "embedsudnævnelser under rentekammeret", but where to see the original letters or "contract"s,  I don't know


greetings
Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Inger Toudal

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Inger Toudal

Christina Kaul

Hi Grethe and Inger,

Thanks for putting in all this effort ! I am actually amazed what information you have all online in Danmark.

I have all the death records from Johann Detlef and his wife in Ribe, from Timotheus and Susanna in Kobenhavn and from Heinrich Detlef in Kobenhavn and his wife Drude Sophia in Købe. I also know all the other deads listed in the link you sent.

But I have no hint to parents nor birth dates nor birth places except the birth of Johann Detlev on 17.4.1714 in Slesvig.

I will ask the National Archive where the Bestellbøger for the rentenamt can be found. I hope they include at least a birth date of the officials.

Here is another link to the rentenamt listing of Timotheus.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=18484342#236996,45105327

Grethe, where did you find the information about the violin builder with father Simon ?

It is strange that many of these Goldts have the first name Detlef - which actually got translated in the Vienna wedding entre of Jacob Goldt 1825 as 'Gottlieb'. I understand the correct German version should be Dietlieb but that name does not exist in Austria !

Regards, Christina

Christina Kaul

Hi Grethe and Inger,

Thanks for putting in all this effort ! I am actually amazed what information you have all online in Danmark.

I have all the death records from Johann Detlef and his wife in Ribe, from Timotheus and Susanna in Kobenhavn and from Heinrich Detlef in Kobenhavn and his wife Drude Sophia in Købe. I also know all the other deads listed in the link you sent.

But I have no hint to parents nor birth dates nor birth places except the birth of Johann Detlev on 17.4.1714 in Slesvig.

I will ask the National Archive where the Bestellbøger for the rentenamt can be found. I hope they include at least a birth date of the officials.

Here is another link to the rentenamt listing of Timotheus.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=18484342#236996,45105327

Grethe, where did you find the information about the violin builder with father Simon ?

It is strange that many of these Goldts have the first name Detlef - which actually got translated in the Vienna wedding entre of Jacob Goldt 1825 as 'Gottlieb'. I understand the correct German version should be Dietlieb but that name does not exist in Austria !

Regards, Christina

Grethe Leerbech

#23
Hi Christina


A Jacob Goldt violin is very expensive and a wanted violin for koncerts. He is welknown and especially his bas viols are most wanted . I have it from this book.  "Biographics of german makers" . At the net I think you are able to find auctions over his musicinstruments

https://vdgsa.org/pgs/viols/Biographies_of_German_Makers.pdf


I believe the family has travelled around. Archprinse Carl Albrecht of Ostfrisland died in 1734 and had a lot of trouble in his country - the inhabitant raised against him - and the danish king had to send him soldiers to help him to stay alive.  So therefore I think Johan Detlev came to Denmark in 1735-36 maybe before. Georg Albrechts wife was a danish prinsess and travelled to Denmark after her hosbands dead, and stayed there the rest of her life, so maybe Johan came with her as a servant (lackay), or maybe he first became lackay when she arrived to Denmark  

About that Detlef (Detlev, Ditlev etc) originally should be Dietlieb, I don't know. I have german and dutch  ancestors from 1600 and up, And they are called Detleff, with different spellings., and has never seen the spelling Dietlieb among my ancestors - but who knows  

Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Inger Buchard

If you don't succeed in the Rigsarkiv, Copenhagen you might trust in this rumour: the church books of the church archive in Kappeln are said to go online this autumn at www.archion.de
As the church books of the north western region are already accessible the rumour could be reliable.

You can follow what's coming up at https://www.archion.de/de/news/neue-digitalisate/

Inger Buchard
Redaktør på DIS-Wiki

Christina Kaul

I had another look at the two different entries in the Rentekammeret

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=18484342#236996,45105327

The Detlef Goldt mentioned here for 1771 is actually not Johannes Detlef, the Lakai in Ostfriesland who went to Assens and later to Ribe. I think it is Detlef Jacob Henrichsen Goldt, the son of the Auditeur Henrich Detlef Goldt. He is actually the father of my Jacob Goldt and always got referred to as 'skriver'.

I will first see with the State Archive on the books of the Rentekammeret as I have now at least three relevant people to look up there.
Depending what that delivers, I will do the church books of Slesvig next.

Again thanks for all the help. I will be back soon on my second problem, the mother of Jacob Goldt - Anna Elisabeths Spais / Speis, who should be from Haderslev.

Christina Kaul

Dear all,

In case you ever get the question again: ALL Danes are allowed to view the Slesvig church records at the Rigsarkivet. So for Danes it does not matter if you are a Danish resident or living abroad. If you are German (or hold any other nationality), on the contrary, you need to be a Danish resident to order the microfilms.

With help of friendly staff in the Rigsarkivet I also located the Bestallingsprotokoller of the Rentekammeret:

https://www.sa.dk/daisy/fysiske_enheder_liste?a=rentek&b=bestal&c=&d=1730&e=1750&f=&g=&h=&ngid=&ngnid=&heid=2151187&henid=2151187&epid=2151187&faid=11&meid=&m2rid=&side=1&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed

I will keep you updated what I find out about the origins of the Goldt family.

Christina

Christina Kaul

I was in the Rigsarkivet today and had a look at the church books of Slesvig.

I found some more bits on the Goldt family but actually not exactly what I was looking for, namely the birth entries of Timotheus and Heinrich Detlef Goldt.

As we suspected Timotheus was already married in Slesvig and the wedding 1749 in Helsingør was his second marriage.

Timotheus had children in Sleswig Friedrichsberg parish between 1735 and 1741, of which three got later confirmated in St. Petri church in Kobenhavn. But I could not find neither his first wedding nor the death of his first wife. The birth entries do not even mention the first name of the mother but state Timotheus as Cammer-Schreiber.

I also found an earlier Detlef Goldt, which I suspect to be the father of Timotheus and Heinrich Detlef. He had four children in Slesvig Friedrichsberg parish between 1707 and 1713, who all died between 1712 and 1717. Detlef himself died in 1720 without indication of neither age nor profession. As Timotheus and Heinrich Detlef were born around 1704-1706, it looks they were born somewhere else before the family moved to Slesvig. This is probably also why I could not find any wedding for Detlef Goldt before 1707.

The Johannes Detlef Goldt, who later became toll man in Ribe, was baptised in 22.4.1714 in Slesvig St. Michaelis. The name of his father was Joachim Goldt, a Danish soldier. So it looks like he was not a brother to Timotheus and Heinrich Detlef Goldt.

Unfortunately the archive did not manage to get me the Bestallingsbøger for the Rentenkammer nor the divorce record of Detlef Jacob Goldt. So I will have to go back to the archive on another occasion, which may take some time....

Will update everyone once I know more.

Christina Kaul

Karin Andersen

#28
Hi  :)

If you dig long enough you might end up looking for informations about these guys. Allow me to ad them to your collection now.
(Note: The HIDNR.02.569 is just my number for the household. The page number from the church book might have been changed.)

From The 1645 Copenhagen tax-register including my findings:
http://www.eremit.dk/ebog/kd/6/kd6_220.html

Address: Vognmandsgade

(HIDNR.02.569) Poul Golds Tømmermand (- f. 1671) og hans hustru.
AO: Kbh. A., Sokkelund H., Vor Frue 1631-1656. Opsl. 64. Dåb nr. 4. 1649. Fadder: M. Pouls Godskes kvinde i Vognmandsgade. Ham?
(Master Poul Godskes woman in Vognmagergade. Him?
Andet:
H.U. RAMSING. KØBENHAVNS EJENDOMME 1377-1728. OVERSIGT OVER SKØDER OG ADKOMSTER. IX. ROSENBORG KVARTER. VED EGIL SKALL. s. 151. Vognmandsgade, Matr. nr. 156 A (-B). Ejes -1653-1668- af Poul Goltsch, (Kudsch, Gols, Godske)
Kudsch, Gols, Godske -1653-1668 owner of land number 156 A (-B) in Vognmagergade
H.U. RAMSING. KØBENHAVNS EJENDOMME 1377-1728. OVERSIGT OVER SKØDER OG ADKOMSTER. IX. ROSENBORG KVARTER. VED EGIL SKALL. s. 156. Vognmandsgade, Matr. nr. 163 A (-B). Ejes -18. juli 1642-26. marts 1672 af Poul Goltsch Tømmermand, død før 1671.Matr. nr. 163 A (-B). Is from before -18. juli 1642-26. marts 1672 owned by Poul Goltsch Carpenter, dead before 1671.
Tømrerlaug. Lavsprotokol. 1640-1671. Opsl. 22. 1641 Betaler han indgangspenge til Tømmerlauget. 1643. Får han en lærling.
1641 He pays to be added to the carpenter society. 1643 he gets an apprentice
Tømrerlaug. Lavsprotokol. 1640-1671. Opsl. 22. 1646. Får Hans Hansen Tømmerlærling penge af Poul Godtz.
In 1646 Hans Hansen carpenter apprentice becomes some money from Poul Godtz.
Lavene Garverlavet, 01. Lavsprotokol, 1635-1683. Opsl. 118. 1645, Andreis Goldts f. i København bliver læredreng hos Marcus Krabbeler Garver. Slægt?
1645, Andreis Goldts born in Copenhagen becomes an apprentice for Marcus Krabbeler Tanner? (a leather maker). A relative to Poul?
Henrik Steenberg.
(living inn the household)

Kind regards  :)

Karin
Rhode-listen. ca. 650 personer findes under "Slægtshistorier" https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,118658.0.html

Christina Kaul

Dear all,

I am stuck with my research on Hendrich Hoffmeyer 1704 - 1736 in Falster, a direct ancestor of my husband.

We have an excerpt of an old Hoffmeyer family tree that got pulled together by Knud Henrik Hoffmeyerin in 1948 and mainly relates to Niels West Hoffmeyer and Sophie Margrete Bielefeld - their ancestors and descendants. The family tree does not specifiy places of birth and death but only provides dates and a main location of life. I have spent some time verifying dates in church books and most dates seem accurate.

But I am now stuck with Hendrich Hoffmeyer 1704 - 1736 in Falster. On 10 February 1730 he marries in Nykoebing Sidsel Hammer and his profession is a parish clerk / sogn degn in Sonder Kirkeby og Sonder Alslev on Falster. His son Peder Christian is born on 4 May 1730 in Sonder Kirkeby and his wife dies while giving birth. He remarries on 13 August 1731 in Stubbekoebing and children are born in 1732, 1734 and 1736 - all in Horbelev. Hendrich dies in Sonder Kirkeby on 13 March 1736 at the age of 32 years.

But where was he born around 1704 ? Some MyHeritage family trees say Kovenhavn but I have no idea where this information comes from. I checked the three weddings of Hendrik's children - none of them provides more information.

Any idea how I could proceed (except checking all church books in Kobenhavn, which I will do if there is no other option) ?

Thanks in advance for your help and best regards,

Christina