Help Deciphering Birth Record?

Ryan Ong · 25 Nov 2018 - 03:33

I'm hoping to get some assistance translating/deciphering a birth record -- specifically the birth record for Rasmus Carlson (first line on the attached link here). I'm hoping specifically to understand what is said about Rasmus' parents -- and his relationship to the Hans Klinke mentioned in the fifth column here.

Link: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17224414#205088,38912890

Many thanks in advance for anyone who is willing and able to offer their time to help me understand!

Yours,
Ryan

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 25 Nov 2018 - 09:57

Hi Ryan,

My Danish is very limited but the barns fader appears to be Carl Møller and Rasmus Carlsen 10 Oct 1837 is illegitimate. I think Carl Møller is living at Hans Klinke's residence.

Mother is Anne Rasmusdatter.

Arne Møhler · 25 Nov 2018 - 13:26

Hi

1837 den 10. October
Rasmus Carlsen, et uægte Barn
den 29. October i Kirken
Fruentimmeret Anne Rasmusdatter i Ryde. Barnefaderen blev angivet at være: Carl Møller tjenende Gmd Hans Klinne i Krunholm.
Dorthe Clausdatter i Fattighuset i Nakskov. Der var ingen Mandefaddere men Barnet blev døbt i Menighedens Overværelse.

Read from the Church Book Copie (a better readable scan):

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117399#153914,25654836

1837 the 10. of october
Rasmus Carlsen, an illegitimate child
the 29. og october
woman Anne Rasmusdatter i Ryde. The childs father was said to be: Carl Møller employd at Hans Klinne in Krunholm.
Dorthe Clausdatter in the pauper house in Nakskov. No Male sponsor was present, but the child was christned in front of the parishioners.

The word Fruentimmer is a word sometime used for unmarried mothers. It is a kind of degradation.
The must be a certain relationship between mother and father, as the childs name is Carlsen, i.e. the son of Carl (Møller)

regards
Arne

Arne Møhler · 25 Nov 2018 - 17:43

Hi

A correction!

Carl Møller was working at Farmer Hans Klinke

I have not yet located Krunholm. It could be the name of the farm.

Here are two censuses for the farm. Farm workers were often in the job for half a year. To find Carl Møller requires a check in the list for coming and leaving people in the curch book.

Maribo, Fuglse, Holeby, Holebye, en Gaard, 44, FT-1834
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:    Fødested:
Hans Nielsen Klinke    43    Gift         Gaardmand og Sognefoged
Anne Pedersdatter    44    Gift         hans Kone [Hans Nielsen Klinke]
Frederik Hansen    21    Ugift         deres Børn [Hans Nielsen Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Maren Hansdatter    15    Ugift         deres Børn [Hans Nielsen Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Sidsel Hansdatter    10    Ugift         deres Børn [Hans Nielsen Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Hans Rasmusen    26    Ugift         Tjenestefolk [Hans Nielsen Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Kirsten Rasmusdatter    17    Ugift         Tjenestefolk [Hans Nielsen Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]

Maribo, Fuglse, Holeby, , een gaard, 30, FT 1840
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:    Fødested:
Hans Klinke    50    gift         gaardmand
Anne Pedersdatter    50    gift         hans kone [Hans Klinke]
Frederik Hansen    26    ugift         deres barn [Hans Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Maren Hansdtt.    21    ugift         deres barn [Hans Klinke og Anne Pedersdatter]
Wilhelm Rasmussen    23    ugift         tjenestekarl
Anne Olsdatter    17    ugift         tjenestepige
Peder Olsen    11    ugift         pleiebarn

regards
Arne

Inger Toudal · 25 Nov 2018 - 18:01

10de October.

Rasmus Carlsen.

døbt i Kirken
d. 29de October
1837

Fruentimmeret Anne
Rasmusdatter af Ryde.
Som Barnefader ud-
lagdes Tjenestekarl
Carl Møller hos Gaard-
mand Hans Klinke i
Krukholm.

Fruentimmeret Dorthea Clausdatter i Fattighu-
set, og Tjenestepige Anne Christensdatter; Tjeneste-
karlen Hans Rasmussen i Græshauge, og Peder
Christensen af Nakskov.

Uægte Barn.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Carl Møller is not working at Hans Mortensen Klinke's farm in Krukholm, Nakskov Landsogn, at the time of the censuses 1834 or 1840:

FT-1834: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid2595105

FT-1840: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid3627854

He could perhaps be here:

Maribo, Lollands Nørre, Herredskirke, Bjerrebye, en Gaard, , 3, FT-1834, B5716
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:
Knud Clausen Raahauge     64     Gift        Gaardmand
Ane Nielsdatter     44     Gift        hans Kone
Niels Knudsen Raahauge     12     Ugift        deres Barn
Peder Paulsen Tage     30     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Carl Møller     23     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Hans Morthensen     19     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Johannes Møller     19     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Hanne Christine Nielsdatter     19     Ugift        Tjenestepige
Maren Cathrine Rasmusdatter     18     Ugift        Tjenestepige

- or here:

Maribo, Lollands Nørre, Købelev, Fælled Bye, Lille Kiøbeløvgaard, , 40, FT-1834, B5718
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:
Christen Friis     46     Gift        Eier af Gaarden
Hanne Magdalene Ernst     43     Gift        hans Kone
Bertha Iverdine Friis     17     Ugift        deres Datter
Christiane Magdalene Ernst     34     Ugift        Huusjomfrue
Karen Marie Madsdatter     37     Ugift        Tjenestepige
Ane Hansdatter     22     Ugift        Tjenestepige
Caroline Nielsdatter     21     Ugift        Tjenestepige
Ellen Marie Nielsdatter     25     Ugift        Tjenestepige
Christen Nielsen     31     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Rasmus Hansen     29     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Johan Clausen     22     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Carl Møller     19     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Mads Peitersen     23     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Rasmus Hansen     23     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Peder Larsen     27     Ugift        Tjenestekarl
Hans Bonde     40     Ugift        Tjenestekarl

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Ryan Ong · 28 Nov 2018 - 05:43

Many thanks to each of you for your help in helping me to decipher this birth record! Of course, I now have more questions than when I started, but several new thoughts and leads to track down. I really appreciate your generosity with your time.

As I can return the favor from here in the United States (not too far from the National Archives in DC), please let me know!

Yours,
Ryan

Helmer Christiansen · 28 Nov 2018 - 23:22

Looked for a Carl Møller in the levying rolls around the time of the christening of Rasmus Carlsen and found
Military Levying Rolls, Maribo amt, N, 1838, Hovedrulle 62-95, opslag 186
Military Levy Number 71 (Nakskov Landsogn)
Old #/new #: 203/141
Father: Christian Møller
Son: Carl Peter Siegfred
Born in: Rolykke
Age: 23
Height in Danish inches: 67
Comes from: 86 L 174

Maribo amt, L, 1836, Tilgangsrulle, opslag 174
Military Levy Number 86 (Herredskirke parish)
#: 174
Father: Christian Møller
Son: Carl Peter Siegfred
Born in: Rolykke
Age: 20
Height in Danish inches: 66½
Current residence: Herredskirke
Comes from 76-301 (Købelev parish)

Church Register of Maribo amt, Lolland Nørre, Købelev, 1813-1835 FKVDJTA (HM), opslag 3
[Born] d: 28de Marts 1815
[Name] Carl Peter Siegfried Christiansen Møller
[Baptised] d: 23 April
[Parents] Christian Møller,
Skomager [shoemaker], og H: [wife]
Elisabeth Oledatter -
Giordemoder [midwife]

Inger Toudal · 29 Nov 2018 - 00:14

The Carl Møller that Helmer found, was sentenced to life imprisonment:

1840 Census, Nakskov: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3585642

1845 Census, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid6047001

1855, Christianshavn prison, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn573/source167668/opslag19772084

Rasmus Carlsen's confirmation 1852 in Landet parish, Lolland:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17116981#153251,25528299 - No 4

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17224302#204901,38877571 - No 4

- his alleged father is not mentioned. Farmer Peder Jespersen in Opager is his foster-father.

Venlig hilsen
Inger

Inger Toudal · 29 Nov 2018 - 21:25

Peter Carl Siegfried Møller fathered an illegitimate child 1836 in Løjtofte:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17224350#204173,38735184 - No 223
- the child died shortly after the baptism.

Tailor Carl Møller and wife had a son, born 24 May 1836 in Løjtofte: same page, No 226
- could be the 23 y. old farmhand Carl Møller that I found in the 1834 Census for Herredskirke.

Maribo, Lollands Nørre, Løjtofte, Lille Løjtofte, et Huus, 13, FT-1840, B2471
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Carl Møller     29     Gift        Inderste og Skræder
Ane Cathrine Frandsdatter     29     Gift        hans Kone [Carl Møller]
Hans Hendrik Møller     4     Ugift        deres Barn [Carl Møller, Ane Cathrine Frandsdatter]

Maribo, Lollands Nørre, Herredskirke, Store Løjtofte., 66. Et hus., 74, FT-1845, B5142
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:    Birth place:
Carl Møller.     34     Gift.        Husmand og skræder.    Løjtofte sogn, Maribo amt.
Thrine Frandsdatter.     34     Gift.        Hans kone.    Horslunde sogn, Maribo amt.
Hans Møller.     9     Ugift.        Deres søn.    Løjtofte sogn, Maribo amt.
Ida Simonia Møller.     12     Ugift.        Deres plejedatter.    Løjtofte sogn, Maribo amt.

Venlig hilsen
Inger