Julius Simonsen Odense Surname Question

Startet af Peter Simonsen, 22 Maj 2019 - 05:32

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Peter Simonsen

Greetings All

I am researching my Great Great Grandfather who was born Julius Anders Simonsen in April 1852, it appears he was born out of wedlock and was given his mothers surname rather than his Fathers was this common as he appears in census data living with both parents at some stage it does appear he had a relationship with both his mother & father. Also is there any way I can find out if he attended any school or had any formal education.

Appreciate any help I can get

Kind Regards
Peter

Bjørn Marcher

Hello Peter,


wellcome to this forum! Hope you will get a lot of informations.
 
This should not be complicated.... let us see. First we need confirmation of the basics, I assume this is your great great grandfather?  Please confirm or correct...

Name   Anders Julius Simonsen
Gender   Male
Christening Date   18 Apr 1852
Christening Place   SANKT HANS, ODENSE, ODENSE, DENMARK
Father's Name   Julius Sillo
Mother's Name   Ellen Kirstine Simonsen

Can also be viewed here:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z6-XN4G?i=35

We find them in the 1860 census:


Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Paaskestræde 42, forhuset 1 sal, 1, FT-1860, B0289

Navn:  Alder:  Status:  Stilling i familien:  Erhverv:  Fødested:
Hans Christensen   30   Gift   gaardskarl      Lumby sogn, Odense Amt   
Ellen Kirstine Simonsen    38   Gift   huusbestyrerinde      Norup sogn   
Anders Julius Simonsen   8   Ugift   søn      Odense   
Frederik Christian   1   Ugift   søn      Odense   


It looks like the mother has been married, but not to the father stated in the church record.

regards

Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark

Bjørn Marcher

Hello again,


we find him in the 1870 census living at his mothers brother it seems (he is mentioned in the birth record)


Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Tolderlundsveien, 104, Forhuset, 3770, FT-1870, D4595

Navn:  Alder:  Status:  Stilling i familien:  Erhverv:  Fødested:
Lars Simonsen   53   Gift   Huusfader   Arbeidsmand   Verninge Sogn, Odense Amt   
Kirsten Rasmussen   64   Gift   Huusmoder      N. Lyndelse Sogn, Odense Amt   
Anders Julius Simonsen   17   Ugift   Søn      Odense   



regards


Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark

Bjørn Marcher


The father is probably the father of this family:


Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Vestergade 69, stuen, 1, FT-1860, B0289

Navn:  Alder:  Status:  Stilling i familien:  Erhverv:  Fødested:
Joseph Angelo Sillo   40   Gift   kjøbmand      Odense   
Jens Sørensen   24   Ugift   handelcomis      Horsens   
Stine Møller   32   Ugift   tjenestepige      Tomerup, Odense Amt   

and here


Odense, Odense Købstad, Vestergade, 69, Forhuus første Etage, 4245, FT-1870, D4595

Navn:  Alder:  Status:  Stilling i familien:  Erhverv:  Fødested:
Joseph Angelo Sillo   49   Gift   Huusfader   Kjøbmand   Odense   
Ane Cathrine Sillo   34   Gift   Huusmoder      Odense   
Josephine Gulia [ Anna Josephine Gulia] Sillo   7   Ugift   Barn      Odense   
Vilhelmine Andrea Sillo   5   Ugift   Barn      Odense   
Hertha Constance Sillo   2   Ugift   Barn      Odense   
Frederik Larsen   19   Ugift   Tjenende   Handelsbetjent   Odense   
Ane Maria Nielsen   18   Ugift      Tjenestepige   Kjerteminde   

and he dies before 1880, as Cathrine is a widow.


Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Vestergade 69, forhus 2den sal, 3959, FT-1880, B0082

Navn:  Alder:  Status:  Stilling i familien:  Erhverv:  Fødested:
Cathrine Sillo   42   Enke(mand)   huusmoder, isenkramhandel      Odense   
Anna Josephine Sillo   17   Ugift   hendes datter      do [Odense]   
Vilhelmine Andrine Sillo   14   Ugift   hendes datter      do [Odense]   
Hertha Constance Julie Marie Sillo   12   Ugift   hendes datter      do [Odense]   
Valdemar Gulius Sillo   8   Ugift   hendes søn      do [Odense]   
Eline Kristiane Larsen   22   Ugift   bestyrer huset      do [Odense]   
Steffen Marius Dichmann   16   Ugift   handelslærling      do [Odense]   
Ane Kristine Petersen   16   Ugift   tjenestepige      do [Odense]   
Victor Olaf Anders Nielsen Iversen   22   Ugift   forretningsfører      Viborg   
Jens Frederik Ludvig Larsen   31   Ugift   kjøbmand      Odense   



you find his confirmation here, 1866 in St. Hans sogn, Odense,

http://www.ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=350339&side=55

with wellknown information of his parents. So i see no signs of him living with the father

Concerning your first question of surname, he probably got his mothers name because the father gave any allowance to use his name. We are at a point in time where the patronyms (like Simonsen = son of Simon) was "frozen" and then became a family name, as it was in this case. In the old patronym system, he should have been called Juliussen, but this did not happen.

regards

Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark

Bjørn Marcher

Hi again,


sorry, there was a misspelling: He probably got his mothers name because the father never gave any allowance to use his name.

There was a law in 1828 concerning namegiving, and a the guideline letter for the bishops is noted

"At det uægte Barn ikke uden den opgivne Barnefaders Samtykke maa døbes med hans Familienavn, men at det bør have Navn efter Moderen, hvilket denne dog kan lade danne enten efter et hendes fornavne, eller af dets Fødselssted."

or something like

"That the illegitimate child should not - without the consent of the stated father of child - be baptized with his family name , but that it should have the name after the mother, which, however, may be made by either of her first names or by the child's place of birth."

The particular law of 1828 was never fully implemented or enforced, and large local differences were seen.

Hope this clarifies.

regards

Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark


Inger Toudal


Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kiøbstad, Vestergade nordre deel no 281, , FT-1850, B5984
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birth place:
G.* Silla     58     Enke(mand)            handelsmand. huusfader      Italien                   * Giulio / Julius
J.* Silla     30     Ugift            handelsbetjent      Odense                                                   *Joseph
C. A. Silla     22     Ugift            handelsbetjent      Odense 
H. P. Holst     31     Ugift            handelsbetjent      Viborg 
Julie Silla     27     Ugift            datter      Odense 
Marie Silla     27     Ugift            datter      Odense

1855 Census, same address: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=121185#121185,17486340

As for Anders Julius' education, school was compulsory from the age of 7 until confirmation at the age of 14-15 y.
He would have learned to read, write, and reckon. The pupils also had religious education and singing lessons,
and were taught history and geography, as well as physical education.

Venlig hilsen
Inger
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Peter Simonsen

Thank you for your informative responses, very much appreciated.

I have recently learned through an obituary of Julius Simonsen that he was the recipient of a medal from the navel authorities for saving a life at sea, is there any data base that may confirm this or have  a citation.

Once again thank you for your assistance.