just starting research and need help

Startet af glenn messke, 13 Dec 2011 - 04:17

Forrige emne - Næste emne

glenn messke

Hello to all,

We are just beginning research on my husband's family. Here is the information we have:

His grandfather was Carl Gustav Messke, born in Copenhagen in May 1904-06. He arrived at Ellis Island, New York on the ship Hellig Olav in November 1920. We don't know for sure that he was born in Copenhagen, but that is what he told his children. Sadly, no one knows his parent's names or where they came from. We would love any help or ideas of where to begin.

Thank you so much, Glenn and Wendy Messke

Homer Ficken

#1
Hi Glenn,

Ancestry lists Carl Gustav Messke on three ship's manifests:

His arrival 1920 on the Hellig Olav was as a crew member, not an immigrant.

On 18 May 1921 he arrived Portland as a passenger on ship Kina from Copenhagen.
He listed Copenhagen as last residence, and nearest relative as mother Marie Larsen.  I'm unsure of the address listed for her, so I have attached the image for our Danish friends to view.

The third listing was again as a crew member, arriving Seattle 17 Dec 1923 on ship President Jefferson from Yokohama.

Ancestry also lists him in a 17 Dec 1923 Washington District naturalization index.

EDIT:  Also found his attached registration in Copenhagen, and those better skilled at locating the parish for a Copenhagen address should be able to locate him.

In the 1930 Seattle census, Carl 24 born Denmark was married to Mary E. 18 born Washington.  He listed 1921 as immigration year and was employed as a painter - auto industry.

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Leif Olesen

Hej Glenn
At www.arkivalieronline.dk you can find the family in census 1921 in Copenhagen at Ålholmsvej 16 (opslag 24)
As you can see there, he has a sister born in Frederikshavn 28.12 - 1898. You can find her birth in Hjørring, Horns, Frederikshavn 1897 - 1902 opslag 144, where you also see his mothers full birthname.

With kind regards
Leif Olesen
Med venlig hilsen
Leif Olesen, 9700

Homer Ficken

#3
Carl's immigration may be unique as it's pretty unusual for an European immigrant to enter the U.S. at Portland Oregon, and the Kina was a cargo ship. Carl's the only "passenger" listed and he's also listed on the first page as a crew member so he "worked his way" to America.

Ella Paula Messke was born 28 Dec 1898 in Frederikshavn to Laura Marie Kristine Dam and barber Otto Messke, who were not then married.

Carl's police registration showed he was born somewhere in Copenhagen 2 May 1905, and I believe the attached registration is his parents, now married.  Names and spelling are a bit different, but birthdate of Marie Louise Christine matches that of Laura Marie Larsen in the 1921 census.  It shows Otto's birthplace as Sweden, so now you have another country to research!

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Homer Ficken

Attached is the 1921 census that Leif cited.
(English instructions for using the Danish online archives):
http://www.utilis.dk/ressourcer/2011_Generic_instructions_for_the_use_of_arkivalieronline.pdf

Jørgen Fredrik Larsen is the stepfather of Ella and Carl, and the 3 younger children their half siblings.



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Homer Ficken

Here's the July 1899 marriage of Gustav Adolph Otto Messke and Laura Marie Christine Dam, listing parents of both.  (Hjørring, Frederikshavn 1897-1902 opslag 94)

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Flemming A. Aasklint


Carl Gustav Messke
born 2 may 1905 , Nygaards Sidevej 1,København
baptized 15 october 1905 in Sion Church,København
(Sion,København 1903-1907,Opslag 121)
Mvh.
Flemming Aasklint
4500  Nykøbing Sjælland

Homer Ficken

Ella and Carl had a brother Herman Otto born 17 January 1900 who must have died small (Frederikshavn 1897-1902 opslag 58 no 4)

I don't find his death in Frederikshavn records, so he probably died after the move to Copenhagen
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-


Homer Ficken

#9
Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 13 Dec 2011 - 23:25
Can't see this has been found in the police registry - Herman Otto Messker: http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2252144&searchname=polit_simple.

Lissa

Nice find Lissa, and it's good to learn he was living in 1921!  It seems there were as many spelling errors in Danish records as in U.S. records.
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Lissa Pedersen

#10
Hi,

You will find Laura and her parents and a sister here (from www.ddd.dda.dk):

aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Sct. Jørgensgade 3, mat. 324, , Forhus, Stuen, 2, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Christen Larsen Dam 36  Gift (married) Arbejdsmand (labourer), Husfader (housefather) Thustrup (normally the parish), Randers Amt (amt = county)
Ane Kirstine Dam, født (født = born) Laursen 27  Gift (married) hans Kone (his wife)  Funder, Viborg Amt
Laura Marie Christine Dam 3  Ugift deres Børn  (their children) Aarhus
Dagmar Dam 1  Ugift deres Børn  (their children) Aarhus

Cannot find a Thustrup parish in Randers county, but there is a Tirstrup - could be this instead?

Lissa

Hermann Otto is here too: http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1411070&searchname=polit_simple

Another one (Laura? - same birthdate 4 July 1876, born in Aarhus): http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2253296&searchname=polit_simple

Lissa Pedersen

#11
Christen Larsen Dam and Anne Kirstine Laursen married 14 March 1876 in Funder (Anne's birth parish) - opslag No. 124 (1861-1881).

He was born in Hemmed parish, Randers county on 29 Jan 1844 and she was born 18 Jul 1852 in Funder parish, Viborg county, born to Lars Andersen Virklund.

Christen was born Christen Laursen - his name changed in 1905 to Christen Laursen Dam - opslag 11 (1837-1874), born to bachelor Lars Sørensen Dam and Maren Rasmusdatter (she was living in the poorhouse)

Ane Kirstine Laursen born to Lars Andersen Virklund and Kirsten Marie Andersdatter - opslag 78 (1832-1860)

Christen and his mother are here in 1845:

randers, Djurs Nørre, Hemmed, Bønderup bye, , Fattighuset, 39, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Birthe Jensdatter 63  Enke  Fattiglem Ginnerup sogn Randers amt
Niels Juul 91  Enke  Fattiglem Heri sognet
Ingeborg Rasmusdatter 46  Enke  Fattiglem Rimsøe sogn Randers amt
Ane Cathrine Nielsdatter 11  Ugift  Hendes børn,fattiglem Heri sognet
Mette Marie Nielsdatter 8  Ugift  Hendes børn,fattiglem Heri sognet
Maren Rasmusdatter 31  Ugift  Fattiglem Glesborg sogn Randers amt
Søren Sørensen 9  Ugift  Hendes børn fattiglem Heri sognet
Christen Laursen 2  Ugift  Hendes børn fattiglem Heri sognet

Lissa

Lissa Pedersen

Lars, Maren and Christen are here to - from www.familysearch.org:

CHRISTEN LAURSEN Pedigree
  Male     
   
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening:  17 MAR 1844   Hemmed, Randers, Denmark
Death: 
Burial: 
   
Parents:
  Father:  LARS SORENSEN DAM  Family
  Mother:  MAREN RASMUSDR     
 
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. 
     
Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

C206603  1837 - 1874  0050974   Film  NONE 

Lissa

Lissa Pedersen

#13
They are here in 1850 - still living at the poorhouse:

randers, Djurs Nørre, Hemmed, Bønnerup Bye, , et Huus, 17, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Niels Andersen Juul 97  Enkemand  Fattiglemmer Her i Sognet
Birthe Sørensdatter 66  Enke  Fattiglemmer Ginnerup Sogn, Randers Amt
Karen (Karen must be wrong - should be Maren) Rasmusdatter 35  Ugift  Fattiglemmer Glesborg Sogn, Randers Amt
Christen Larsen 7  Ugift  den sidstes Barn Her i Sognet
Ingerborg Rasmusdatter 50  Enke  Fattliglem Rimsøe Sogn, Randers Amt

Maren and her first son Søren are here in 1840 (the poorhouse):

randers, Djurs Nørre, Hemmed, Bønnerup Bye, , et Huus, 16, FT-1840
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Niels Juhl 85  Enkemand  Indsidder og Almisselem  
Birte Jensdatter 56  Enke  Indsidderske og Dagleier  
Maren Rasmusdatter 25  Ugift  Indsidderske og Dagleier  
Søren Sørensen 3  Ugift  hendes Søn  
Ingeborg Rasmusdatter 42  Enke  Indsidder og Dagleier  
Ane Nielsdatter 7  Ugift  hendes Børn  
Mette Nielsdatter 3  Ugift  hendes Børn  
Birte Mortensdatter 42  Ugift  Almisselem, Wanfør

Lissa

Lissa Pedersen

#14
This could be Ane/Anne Kirstine Laursen's parents in 1850:

viborg, Hids, Funder, Funder, , et Huus, 39, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Peder Hansen Rom 56  Gift  Huusfader, ernærer sig af sin Jordlod her i Sognet
Ane Kirstine Jespersdatter 71  Gift  hans Kone Resen Sogn, Viborg Amt
Mette Marie Eriksen 10  Ugift  deres Pleiedatter her i Sognet
Lars Andersen 30  Gift  Indsidder, ernærer sig ved Dagleie Them Sogn, Skanderborg Amt
Kirsten Marie Andersen 29  Gift  hans Kone Kragelund Sogn, Viborg Amt
Karoline Larsen 1  Ugift  deres Datter her i Sognet

And in 1860 - with Ane Kirstine:

viborg, Hids, Funder, Funder Bye, , Et Huus, 36, FT-1860
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Laurs Andersen 37  gift Huusmand, lever af sin Jordlod, Huusfader  Them Sogn, Skanderb. A.
Kirsten Marie Andersen 36  gift Hans Kone  Kragelund S., Viborg Amt
Karoline Laursen 11  ugift [deres datter]  her i Sognet
Ane Kirstine Laursen 8  ugift [deres datter]  [her i Sognet]
Anders Christian Laursen 2  ugift [deres søn]  [her i Sognet]
Bodilline Marie Laursen 2  ugift [deres datter]  [her i Sognet]

And in 1880:

viborg, Hids, Funder, Funder By, Funder Sogn, Hids Herred, Viborg Amt, , 34. Er Hus, 31, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Laurs Andersen 58  Gift Husfader, Lever af sin Ejendom  Them Sogn, Skanderborg Amt
Kirsten Marie Andersen 57  Gift hans Hustru  Kragelund Sogn, Viborg Amt
Sofus Severinus Kristian Sørensen 5  Ugift Opdrages på Kommun  Kjøbenhavn (foster child)

Lissa

Lissa Pedersen

I just wonder, whether Glenn and Wendy can use what we found!!??

Lissa

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 15 Dec 2011 - 18:56
I just wonder, whether Glenn and Wendy can use what we found!!??

Lissa

Many in U.S. are preoccupied with Christmas plans, church events, shopping, and parties now and perhaps they have forgotten to check for replies.  (Is there no option to provide notification when replies are posted?)
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Lissa Pedersen

Hi Homer,

Of course, I understand. But I would be curious myself, if I had made a posting.

I think that if you click the word "abonner" in the brown box down to the right, which means "subscribe or be notified", you will receive notification about new postings/messages. I haven't tried it myself.

Lissa

Homer Ficken

#18
OK, I found it in the 'Instructions for the New Forum' at top of board:

http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/andet/forum-help-english

'You have some extra options when you write a message. Click on Øvrige funktioner (further options] and these posts appear:

Abonner på svar: Mark this if you want to get a mail whenever a new message is posted to the thread.'

(It must be done at the time you post a message, and I have just done so with this one)

Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Jane C


Homer Ficken

Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-


Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 15 Dec 2011 - 19:25
Hi Homer,

Of course, I understand. But I would be curious myself, if I had made a posting.

I think that if you click the word "abonner" in the brown box down to the right, which means "subscribe or be notified", you will receive notification about new postings/messages. I haven't tried it myself.

Lissa

Lissa, I think Wendy is the one on Facebook, and I just sent her a message.
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

glenn messke

Citat fra: Homer Ficken Dato 19 Dec 2011 - 23:00
Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 15 Dec 2011 - 19:25
Hi Homer,

Of course, I understand. But I would be curious myself, if I had made a posting.

I think that if you click the word "abonner" in the brown box down to the right, which means "subscribe or be notified", you will receive notification about new postings/messages. I haven't tried it myself.

Lissa

Lissa, I think Wendy is the one on Facebook, and I just sent her a message.


Homer and Lissa (and all others who gave so generously of their time and talent),

We can't even BEGIN to find the proper words to thank you for the wonderful gift you have given us. We never thought we would be able to find any of Glenn's relatives from Denmark. Imagine our complete joy and surprise when we logged in and found all of your replies and the information that we never thought was possible to find. We truly feel as though we have won the lottery. Thank you all for giving us a legacy to pass on to our children. We are hoping that by finding some of Glenn's family we can learn more about ourselves (do our children look like Glenn's ancestors or does my oldest son's height come from Glenn's ancestors? and many other questions or other stories we may learn of their lives.)

Any ideas of how to find living relatives? We live in Europe and would love to meet any of them. If this is not possible, we will be glad just to be able to visit the cities where Glenn's family come from.

I have had a hard time posting this message, but am indeed on Facebook under Wendy Messke and Glenn is listed as Dave Messke (his middle name). We would love any advice on where to go from here and advice for how to find some of the information, or any other information you think would be helpful for me to research. I am new to genealogy, but determined to find everything I can.

Homer, I haven't received any messages, but would open to receiving any tips you could offer through Facebook.

Thank you all so very much,
Wendy (and Glenn) Messke

Lissa Pedersen

Hi,

Good to hear from you. But I don't understand why you are having a hard time posting a message, as you write?

On the free Danish telephone directory www.degulesider.dk you will find a few people with the lastname Meeske. Could be??

Lissa

glenn messke

Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 22 Dec 2011 - 00:20
Hi,

Good to hear from you. But I don't understand why you are having a hard time posting a message, as you write?

On the free Danish telephone directory www.degulesider.dk you will find a few people with the lastname Meeske. Could be??

Lissa

Thank you Lissa, I was replying, but it was disappearing before I could hit the send button.It finally worked on the fourth try. I am just happy that the post went through and we could thank everyone! I selected the ovrige funktioner button to get notifications of posts in to my email account and it worked. I will learn to use this site soon :O) I hope!

I will try the telephone directory. Thank you so much for the suggestion and for all your help!

Wendy

glenn messke

Citat fra: Lissa Pedersen Dato 14 Dec 2011 - 01:37
Christen Larsen Dam and Anne Kirstine Laursen married 14 March 1876 in Funder (Anne's birth parish) - opslag No. 124 (1861-1881).

He was born in Hemmed parish, Randers county on 29 Jan 1844 and she was born 18 Jul 1852 in Funder parish, Viborg county, born to Lars Andersen Virklund.

Christen was born Christen Laursen - his name changed in 1905 to Christen Laursen Dam - opslag 11 (1837-1874), born to bachelor Lars Sørensen Dam and Maren Rasmusdatter (she was living in the poorhouse)

Ane Kirstine Laursen born to Lars Andersen Virklund and Kirsten Marie Andersdatter - opslag 78 (1832-1860)

Christen and his mother are here in 1845:

randers, Djurs Nørre, Hemmed, Bønderup bye, , Fattighuset, 39, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Birthe Jensdatter 63  Enke  Fattiglem Ginnerup sogn Randers amt
Niels Juul 91  Enke  Fattiglem Heri sognet
Ingeborg Rasmusdatter 46  Enke  Fattiglem Rimsøe sogn Randers amt
Ane Cathrine Nielsdatter 11  Ugift  Hendes børn,fattiglem Heri sognet
Mette Marie Nielsdatter 8  Ugift  Hendes børn,fattiglem Heri sognet
Maren Rasmusdatter 31  Ugift  Fattiglem Glesborg sogn Randers amt
Søren Sørensen 9  Ugift  Hendes børn fattiglem Heri sognet
Christen Laursen 2  Ugift  Hendes børn fattiglem Heri sognet

Lissa

Lissa,
I found this at familysearch.org and wondered if there is a way to find the church where she was baptized?

Name:
Ane Kirstine Laursen Funder

Baptism/Christening Date:
29 Aug 1852

Baptism/Christening Place:
FUNDER,VIBORG,DENMARK

Birth Date:
18 Jul 1852

Father's Name:
Lars Andersen Virklund

Mother's Name:
Kirsten Marie Andersdr

Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
C21076-2


Also, from familysearch, do you think this is her parent's marriage and is there a way to find which church they were married in?

Lars Andersen Virklund

Bride's Name:

Kirsten Marie Andersdr

Marriage Date:
13 Dec 1848

Marriage Place:
Funder,Viborg,Denmark

Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
M21076-2

System Origin:
Denmark-ODM

Source Film Number:
53875

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Wendy



Paul Londahl-Smidt

Hi Wendy,

Since the Danes are asleep here is what this American has found.

Ane Kirstine Laursen born on 18 Jul 1852 in Funder, Hids, Viborg, Funder kirkebog 1832-1860, opslag 78 nr 9, parents Lars Andersen and Kirsten Marie Anderdatter.

Lars Andersen and Kirsten Marie Andersdatter were married in Funder on 13 Dec 1848, opslag 151 nr 4.

Here is the family in the 1850 census
All persons in the household

Viborg, Hids, Funder, Funder, , et Huus, 39, FT-1850
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Peder Hansen Rom   56    Gift      Huusfader, ernærer sig af sin Jordlod   her i Sognet
Ane Kirstine Jespersdatter   71    Gift      hans Kone   Resen Sogn, Viborg Amt
Mette Marie Eriksen   10    Ugift      deres Pleiedatter   her i Sognet
Lars Andersen   30    Gift      Indsidder, ernærer sig ved Dagleie   Them Sogn, Skanderborg Amt
Kirsten Marie Andersen   29    Gift      hans Kone   Kragelund Sogn, Viborg Amt
Karoline Larsen   1    Ugift      deres Datter   her i Sognet

Note Ane Kirstine Jesperdatter as she is Kirsten Marie Andersen's mother.

Kirsten Marie Andersen was born in Kragelund, Hids, Viborg on 14 May 1822, parents Anders Sørensen and Anne Kirstine Jespersdatter, opslag 33 nr 5.

Laurs Andersen was born 5 May 1819 in Them, Vrads, Skanderborg, opslag 19 nr 9, parents Anders Jensen and Ellen Hansdatter.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Paul

Homer Ficken

To trace the Messke side of the family looks difficult:  Carl's father Gustav Adolph Otto's marriage lists his parents as Gottlob Hermann Messke and Pauline Augusta Uhlich of Jüterbog in ____?  I don't recognize the second word but there is a Jüterbog southwest of Berlin.

And, Gustav Adolph Otto Messke's Copenhagen registration listed his birthplace as Gothenburg, Sweden.


[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Paul Londahl-Smidt

Hi Homer,

Guterbog, Prossen, most likely Prussia.  Their churchbook through 1882 is available through the Family History Centers. http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=208881&disp=Kirchenbuch++

Taking a look at the Copenhagen Police Register, it only says Gøteborg and not Sverige.  I suspect when Gustav told the police Guterbog with a German accent, they heard Gøteborg.  I think he was born in Prussia and not Sweden.

Sincerely,
Paul