trace of ancestors in USA Bertel C Christensen - his wife and her brother

Startet af Bente Wanning, 07 Apr 2013 - 15:41

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Bente Wanning

hi
I am looking for a friendly helper to trace my ancestors in USA:

Bertel Christian Christensen, born Skaeve parrish, Hjoerring county September 2 - 1852
and his wife
Christine Margrethe Ol(e)sen, born Volstrup parrish, Hjoerring county December 27 - 1850
They are married November 27 - 1874 in Skaeve parrish, Hjoerring county

My last knowledge of the couple in Denmark Census 1880
Samtlige personer i husstanden

Hjørring, Dronninglund, Skæve, Lille Birketshus, Et hus, 76 (5), FT-1880, C6393
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Bærtel Kristensen 26  Gift Husfader, Husejer, Daglejer i Agerbruget  Her i Sognet (Skaeve parrish)
Kristine Margrete Olsen 29  Gift Hans Kone  Her i Sognet (Volstrup parrish)

I do not find any children born of Bertel and Christine.
And no ticket to US on Christine is found.

Ticket to US:
1 post(er) fundet
Navn:  Christensen, Bertel Stilling:  Husmand
Alder:  28 Bestemmelsessted:  Chicago
Kontrakt nr.:  173200 Forevisningsdato:  4/13/1881
Sidste oph.sogn:  Tårs Sidste oph. amt:  Hjørring
Sidste oph.sted:  Birket, Hjørring Bestemmelses land:  USA
Bestemmelses by:  Chicago Bestemmelses stat:  Illinois
Skibsnavn:  Indirekte
IDkode:  I8081C0902



And then Christine´s brother
Anders Peter Olesen born November 20 - 1855 in Skaeve parrish, Hjoerring county

Census 1880 last trace in Denmark:

Samtlige personer i husstanden

Hjørring, Dronninglund, Skæve, Hugdrup Fælled, Et Hus, 75 (11), FT-1880, C6393
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Anders Peter Olsen 23  Ugift -  Her i Sognet

Departure ship Allemannia from Hamburg, Germany arrival 29 april 1880 in USA


Skrivebord\AO slægtsforskning\Freeborn Anders Peter Olsen County Danish Immigrants to Albert Lea 1880.mht

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.castlegarden.org/quick_search_detail.php?p_id=10587358

A friendly helper in DK via Ancestry does not find anything but their arrival in US, so I hope I am lucky this way.

Thanks in advance.



Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
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Erik Schaefer

Anders Passenger List from his departure in Hamburg:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/91759524/Hamburg%20Passenger%20Lists%2C%201850-1934%20-%20Anders%20Peter%20Olsen%281%29.jpg

Anders Passenger List from his arrival in New York:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/91759524/New%20York%2C%20Passenger%20Lists%2C%201820-1957%20-%20Anders%20Peter%20Olsen%282%29.jpg


Please download those from my PC so I can remove the files.  Still looking for any record for the rest of them in America.  The problem is that they arrived after the 1880 Census.  The 1890 Census has been destroyed by fire.  By 1900, they could be living anywhere in the US, and who knows if they changed their name when they arrived.

I'll look some more, maybe someone else has some tips.
Research areas of interest:
Hjarup / Vamdrup / Sonder Broby / Taps/ Vantinge

Gammel Rye / Them/ Vrads

Bente Wanning

 :)hi Erik
Thanks so much for finding Anders Peter´s departure and arrival.
I have heard that persons change their names into something that sounds more English.
I still hope to get more good news.
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
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Erik Schaefer

Yes, usually true.  In my family Jens changed his name to "James".

Bertel is not a common American name and in fact I found none that matched the dates.  Most likely he went by Christian Christiansen.  But I found about 300 Christian Christensens that were born and arrived in the US +/- 1 year of the dates you gave.  Same thing with Christine Olsen (who could be going by Christina or Kristina or Christine).

It's really difficult without knowing if they actually made it to Chicago.  Chicago has a very nice collection of birth and death records, even during the 1890 time period, but there are just too many Danish immigrants with this name.  I'm sure someone with more experience can find them, I'll look more later.
Research areas of interest:
Hjarup / Vamdrup / Sonder Broby / Taps/ Vantinge

Gammel Rye / Them/ Vrads

Bente Wanning

hi Erik
Thanks again for your help.
I know their names are very common and therefore can be difficult to trace.
Other friendly helpers might come up with something. I`ll wait and be patient.
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
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John Wrenholt

I assume this is the record that you mentioned in your post:

Danish Emigrants to Albert Lea 1880 Arrivals
Below is a list of Danes who listed their destination as Albert Lea, and arrived in 1880. This is by no means a list of all Danish emigrants who settled in Albert Lea--some may have given their original destination as some other city, and later came here.
Name                          Age   Registration   Residence                   Ship
Olsen, Anders Peter    25    4/8/1880    Frederikshavn    Hjorring    Not given

There is an Andew Olson in the Minnesota state census for 1895. It could possibly be the person that you're searching for.

Name:    Andrew Olson
Titles and Terms:   
Event Place:    Albert Lea city, Ward 01, Freeborn, Minnesota
Age (Original):    40y
Birth Year (Estimated):    1855
Birthplace:    Denmark
Race (Original):    W
Gender:    Male
Line Number:    7
Family Number:    238
Page Number:    30
GS Film number:    000565772
Household   Gender   Age   Birthplace
A C Wedge   M   61y    New York
Betsey Wedge   F   58y    Ohio
Bertha Jensen   F   40y    Denmark
Andrew Olson   M   40y    Denmark

Bente Wanning

hi John
Thanks so much for helping me.
You are right, it is the record I tried to show as a link but I failed

Census 1895 looks exiting: I´m almost sure it is the right person and the name is changed into "English". Are you able to look up Census 1900 and later in the same area, it could prehabs tell us a little bit more f.ex if he is married and has family. I´m happy for even tiny news.

We (my husbond) have relatives in Saint Paul, Minnesota, so it would be exiting for me to find my own "family" in the same state.

In advance thankyou.
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
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John Wrenholt

FindaGrave shows that Andrew P Olsen (1855-1936) is buried in Graceland Cemetery in Albert Lea, Minnesota

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=olson&GSfn=andrew&GSby=1855&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=all&GSst=25&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=92274974&df=all&

Interestingly, he shares the headstone with a Kristine M Olsen Andersen (1850-1936)!


Bente Wanning

John
Amazing to look at the sone. Thanks for searching for me.

Yes, this is my ancestors - brother and sister.

Christine Margrethe might have lost her first husbond Bertel C Christensen, because it seems impossible to find him anywhere, (prehabs Bertel died in Chicago IL and she moved nearby her brother) and remarried a guy with last name Andersen. Olsen is her maiden name. It is just funny I can`t find her name on a "ticket/passport" and the departure from Denmark.
Prehabs it´s possible to find her in census under the name Kristine M (olsen) Andersen.
Thanks very much, John
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
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Lissa Pedersen

#10
Here you can order a death certificate, if needed: http://people.mnhs.org/dci/Results.cfm

Write Olson in the first box and Andrew in the second. Select county = Freeborn.

Andrew Peter Olson died 15 June 1937.

Lissa

John Wrenholt

Could this be them in the 1900 US Census?  The birth years are off some but the months seems to be correct.

Name:    Andrew O Olesen
Titles and Terms:   
Event Type:    Census
Event Date:    1900
Event Place:    ED 43 Albert Lea Township Albert Lea city Ward 3, Freeborn, Minnesota, United States
Birth Date:    Nov 1859
Birthplace:    Denmark
Relationship to Head of Household:    Roomer
Father's Birthplace:    Denmark
Mother's Birthplace:    Denmark
Race:    White
Gender:    Male
Marital Status:    Single
Years Married:   
Marriage Year (Estimated):   
Mother of how many children:   
Number of Living Children:   
Immigration Year:    1883

Head   Jens J Andersen   M   49    Denmark
Wife   Christine M Andersen   F   46    Denmark
Boarder   Anne E Larsen   F   41    Denmark
Roomer    Andrew O Olesen   M   41    Denmark

I think you'll be able to view the scanned image here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11595-141097-83?cc=1325221&wc=MMPJ-WM8:n1018014749

John Wrenholt

1930 US Census:

Name:    Andrew Olsen
Event Type:    Census
Event Date:    1930
Event Place:    Albert Lea, Freeborn, Minnesota
Gender:    Male
Age:    68
Marital Status:    Single
Race:    White
Birthplace:    Denmark
Birth Year (Estimated):    1862
Immigration Year:    1882
Relationship to Head of Household:    Brother-in-law
Father's Birthplace:    Denmark
Mother's Birthplace:    Denmark
Head   Jens J Anderson   M   79    Denmark
Wife   Christine O Anderson   F   76    Denmark
Brother-in-law    Andrew Olsen   M   68    Denmark

Bente Wanning

Lissa
Thanks for the link.
I have now ordered the certificate - amount $ 9,00 -

I´m still open for any information/help.
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
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Bente Wanning

John
Again thankyou so much, you are so quick with your answers.
Yea, both census are my ancestors.
Census make me sure of Christine M´s hosbond Bertel died early and she remarried this mann Jens J Andersen. It don`t show any children of Christine and Jens.
It also confirm that Andrew - Anders Peter Olsen, single, is brother-in-law to Jens J Andersen.
Also thanks for the image link.
Are the census for 1910 and 1920?
Thanks in advance
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
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Hals Arkiv 9370
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Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Bente Wanning Møller Poulsen Dato 08 Apr 2013 - 22:09
Are the census for 1910 and 1920?
Thanks in advance

Jens & Christina Andersen and Andrew Olsen lived at the same Albert Lea address, 810 Newton St, in the 1900, 1910, 1920, and 1930 censuses.

In 1900 Jens and Christina listed that they had been married 3 years.

In 1910 "James" and Christina listed married 13 years, his first marriage but her second  (attached)

(Andrew Olsen was apparently missed at first count 1910, but was listed on another page with same address)



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

David Peterson

Bente:

I have been watching this search with interest.  It is a very typical but difficult task, trying to connect people in USA with those in Denmark, when there is not clear information.
I just want to make sure that we are not "chasing" the wrong people!

There is a good coincidence of the names of Andrew P Olson and Kirstine M. Olson Andersen with the right birth years on the same headstone.  But it is somewhat unusual for two people to be on a headstone like this, and not be married....especially when one of them is known to be married and that the two of them are siblings.  Where is Kirstine/Christine's  husband Jens J. Andersen??

Also, I would point that it would be nice to get some information that specifically links this brother and sister in Minnesota to the brother and sister in Hjørring, Denmark.  (Of course, I know that is not always possible....)

I was not able to answer the "where" of Jens' cemetery, but I see that he died 19 Oct 1937.  (He is also in the Minnesota Death Index as "Jens Jacob Andersen".

You will also find him in the death index of the Danish Brotherhood.  He was a member of the lodge at Albert Lea (#75).  The index indicates his birth place as "Slangerup".  http://www.danishmuseum.org/fhgc/resources/DB_deaths-Andersen.pdf


I do not find Andrew/Anders in the Danish Brotherhood index.

The Minnesota Marriages Index gives the marriage of Jens and Christine 3 years before the 1900 census:
James J Andersen and Christine M Olsen married at Albert Lea, Freedborn, Minnesota on 3 July 1897.
It looks like the actual marriage certificate may be at the county archives at http://www.fchm.us/library.htm where it can be researched for a fee (of course!).

Because of their ages, it is possible that this is also his second marriage...

It will be interesting to see if the death certificate of Andrew Olson will have any information about his origin and mother.  (The site says that it may have this information, but there is no guarantee!)

The marriage certificate above of Christine may also give information about her origin.

Even family stories may give little clues that help to link the two "sides" together.  Bente, you call them "ancestors", but they are not direct ancestors, right?  How are you related to them?  Do you know of any communication between the family in Denmark and the family in the USA?   Is there any clue as to where they settled (what state)?  Did Christine and Anders Peter have siblings that remained in Denmark?  Is there any idea in the family stories that Berthel died and that Christine then re-married?  Do we know that Berthel and Christine were still "together" (still married) when he left for the USA in 1881?   People did die on the ship, so that is one possibility for the fact that he is not found in the arriving passenger lists.  But of course, sometimes they are just missed in the lists because of changes in name, etc.

David Peterson

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: David Peterson Dato 09 Apr 2013 - 00:04
The Minnesota Marriages Index gives the marriage of Jens and Christine 3 years before the 1900 census:
James J Andersen and Christine M Olsen married at Albert Lea, Freedborn, Minnesota on 3 July 1897.
Peterson

The fact that Christine used her maiden name when she remarried might be significant: 

In the US a widow who remarries normally uses her prior husband's surname, and if Danish records of divorces are available, I would check for one
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Bente Wanning

Homer

Thanks so much for the census, which confirms what I am thinking, that it is my Christine and her brother Anders Peter (Andrew)

That Christine is using her maiden name when getting married, is very common in DK, even in 2nd marrige. Divorced woman often take their maiden name back too.

Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
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Bente Wanning

 ::)
David
Thanks a lot for your interest in my thread.
I am so convinced that it is my persons so I ordered the marriage certificate today.

Citat fra: David Peterson Dato 09 Apr 2013 - 00:04

Even family stories may give little clues that help to link the two "sides" together.  Bente, you call them "ancestors", but they are not direct ancestors, right?  How are you related to them?  Do you know of any communication between the family in Denmark and the family in the USA?   Is there any clue as to where they settled (what state)?  Did Christine and Anders Peter have siblings that remained in Denmark?  Is there any idea in the family stories that Berthel died and that Christine then re-married?  Do we know that Berthel and Christine were still "together" (still married) when he left for the USA in 1881?   People did die on the ship, so that is one possibility for the fact that he is not found in the arriving passenger lists.  But of course, sometimes they are just missed in the lists because of changes in name, etc.

My relation to Christine and Anders Peter is their siblings:
Oldest sister: Johanne Cathrine Olesen born August 5 1947 Volstrup parrish, Hjorring County - my greatgrandmother on my dad´s side. She died August 25 1878 in Skaeve parrish, only 31 years old weak-chested. She had 2 dead born boys and my grandfather.

Christine is the 2nd oldest girl.

Eldest brother is Hans Andreas Olesen born 15 Juni 1853 in Skaeve parrish. He died November 30 1881, only 28 years old of lung-cancer. He was married and had 3 little girls.

Youngest brother is Anders Peter Olesen.

Their mother too died May 1 - 1881 - so there was no reason for Christine and Anders Peter to stay in Denmark.

Bertel and Christine was still married when Bertel left DK in 1881 Census 1880 confirms that. I don´t find evidence of where or how Bertel died, but it seems clear to me he died young otherwise Christine wouldént remarry and she was alone, no kids and no family except her brother and no citizen ship..

My thread is still open for any comment. (everything about Bertel would be nice.)

Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
Medlem af DS Danmark -

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Bente Wanning Møller Poulsen Dato 09 Apr 2013 - 17:47
Bertel and Christine was still married when Bertel left DK in 1881 Census 1880 confirms that. I don´t find evidence of where or how Bertel died, but it seems clear to me he died young otherwise Christine wouldént remarry and she was alone, no kids and no family except her brother and no citizen ship..

My thread is still open for any comment. (everything about Bertel would be nice.)


Probably just a name coincidence but a Bert Christensen in Lansing, Allamakee County, Iowa listed similar age and immigration:

1900 Lansing Iowa census

Bert Christianson Sep 1855 Denmark, married 16 years, to US 1882
Anna Christianson Dec 1859 Norway
Christ Christianson Jun 1884 Iowa
Sever Christianson Jan 1887 Iowa
Louie Christianson Jan 1891 Iowa
 
Here is Bert's grave site, which unfortunately does not list his full birth date:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=christ&GSfn=bert&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=14&GScnty=549&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=36679722&df=all&;
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Bente Wanning

hello Homer Ficken

Thanks a lot for responding this thread.

Is it possible for you to check census 1920 for Bert(el) Christensen in Allamakee county Iowa?

I hope that could tell more. It is difficult to know wether he is divorced from Christine or "the wrong person". Yes, he might even just have left her?? That kind of things happend now and then back in time.

Census 1900 his birthmonth September is correct and year is wrong, but I know that census often is wrong.

When I recieve the ordered marriage certificate for Christine it might hopefully give me the information I need. Thanks in advance.
Venlig hilsen
Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
Medlem af DS Danmark -

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Bente Wanning Møller Poulsen Dato 11 Apr 2013 - 09:50
Is it possible for you to check census 1920 for Bert(el) Christensen in Allamakee county Iowa?

In 1920, Bert and Anne were living with their son in Des Moines, Iowa:

Christopher Christensen 36 head Iowa
Nelle Christensen 27 wife Iowa 
Lois M Christensen 12 daughter Iowa
Louie A Christensen 28 brother Iowa
Bert Christensen 66 father Denmark, immigration 1883
Anne Christensen 61 mother Norway, immigration 1883

--------------------------------------------------------

1910 Lansing, Iowa:

Bert Christianson 57 Denmark, married 25 years, immigration 1883
Annie Christianson 51 Norway, 4 children,  immigration 1883
Louie Christianson 19 Iowa

Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Bente Wanning

Homer Ficken
Thanks again spending so much of your time on me.Right now I don´t know what to believe in or not believe.

My Bertel C left Denmark 1881 to go for Illinois, Chicago according to his info in the danish police record. So I doubt now it is this Bert from Iowa. It is just silly the work with the "wrong" person.

So I am out of ideas right now, I quess I have to be patient untill I recieve my ordered licence for Christine M Olsen.

Do you have good ideas?? You are welcome back.
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Bente Wanning 
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Bente Wanning

 ::)hello forum
My thread is still open for new information. I haven´t got marriage certificate of Christine M Olsen and death certificate of Anders Peter Olsen yet, but I am still open for any news.
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Bente Wanning 
Hjørring amt <Skæve<Voer<Astrup<Åsted sogne
Hals Arkiv 9370
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Bente Wanning

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Bente Wanning 
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Bente Wanning

Just now I got Anders Peter Olsens probate from Minnesota, so this case is closed.

Thanks to Minnesota genealogy on Facebook.

Does a friendly helper hear/find anything about Bertel in USA I will be happy to know about it.

The marrige of J J Andersen og Christine M Olsen is the right one too, It is confirmed.

But Bertel??????????????
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Bente Wanning 
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