Translation of birth record

Startet af Homer Ficken, 24 Apr 2013 - 19:58

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Homer Ficken

Need translation of attached birth record for Peder Christian Michelsen, son of unmarried Ane Nielsdatter (Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev 1814-1845, opslag 32):

Who are the others listed, is the alleged father named?

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Lis B. Jensen

Hi Homer

I read it like this:

Moderen, Ugift Ane Nielsdatter
Hjemme hos som Moder Karen Degn
I Tørslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder??
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Tørslev
Udlagt Michel Pedersen Re??
Møller paa Ørnstrup Mølle  ( ?? gift)

The meaning is that :
Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder?? (his Brother)
Jens Nielsen Pedersen
is witness when the father is pronounced
Lis B. Jensen
* * * * * * * *
Ses i Legacy Forum: http://legacydansk.com og
https://vordingborglokalarkiv.dk/

Lissa Pedersen

Could Michel Pedersen's last name be Reesen/Resen, as I remember having met/seen this name in the Thisted area.

Lissa

Homer Ficken

#3
Citat fra: Lis B. Jensen Dato 24 Apr 2013 - 21:13
Hi Homer

I read it like this:

Moderen, Ugift Ane Nielsdatter
Hjemme hos som Moder Karen Degn
I Tørslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder??
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Tørslev
Udlagt Michel Pedersen Re??
Møller paa Ørnstrup Mølle  ( ?? gift)

The meaning is that :
Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Oringaard og dennes Broder?? (his Brother)
Jens Nielsen Pedersen
is witness when the father is pronounced

Thanks Lis; does that mean the father has not "been pronounced"?

And is Karen Degn mother of Ane Nielsdatter?

(Peder Christian Michelsen and descendants are later recorded as 'Mikkelsen Degn'  sometimes with Degn in parentheses)

Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Lis B. Jensen

Hi Homer

Yes - Karen Degn mother of Ane Nielsdatter.

It Means that the to men mentionend confirms the announcement of the father.

http://translate.google.com/#en/da/ - gives this trnaslation:

The mother, married Ane Nielsdatter
At home with her Mother Karen Degn
In Tørslev. As a child father was in
To observe the Gaardmand Soren
Pedersen Oringaard and his brother?
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, both of Tørslev
Zoned Michel Pedersen Re?
Moller on Ørnstrup Mill (? Married)

a od translation - but I Hope it makes sence?
Lis B. Jensen
* * * * * * * *
Ses i Legacy Forum: http://legacydansk.com og
https://vordingborglokalarkiv.dk/

Lissa Pedersen

#5
This must be the family in 1845:

thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev bye, , Et huus, 34, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 62  Ugift  Dagleierske Jørdsby Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 37  Ugift  Hendes datter Heri sognet
Ferdinand Otto Poulsen 11  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet
Peter Christian Michelsen 9  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet
Niels Andreas Johansen 3  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet
Søren Christian Johansen 2  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet

And here in 1850:

thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev By, , Et hus, 5, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 67  Ugift  Huseierinde Jørsby sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 42  Ugift  Hendes datter Her i sognet
Peder Christian Mikkelsen 14  Ugift  Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
Niels Andreas Johansen 8  Ugift  Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet
Søren Christian Johansen 7  Ugift  Sidstnævntes børn Her i sognet

And in 1855:

thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev by, , Et huus, 18, FT-1855
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 72  Ugift Huuseierinde, huusmoder  Jordsby
Ane Nielsdatter 47  Ugift Hendes datter, dagleierske  Her i sognet
Niels Andr. Johansen 13  Ugift Sidstnævntes børn  Her i sognet
Søren Chr. Johansen 12  Ugift Sidstnævntes børn  Her i sognet

And in 1860:

thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev by, , Et huus, 17, FT-1860
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 77  Ugift Huuseierinde  Jordsby
Ane Nielsdatter 52  Ugift Hendes datter  Her i s.

Lissa

Homer Ficken

So is the indication that Michel Pedersen the miller of Ørnstrup was the father?

Would this be the Ørnstrup of Torsted, Vejle?
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Ralph Rasmussen

Michel was just a hand.  The parentheses reads: NB, gift Mand, Nota bene, married man.

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Rakkeby, Rachebye, en gaard og mølle, F4, FT-1834, B6223
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Christensen 42  Gift  Gaardmand og møller 
Zidsel Jensdatter 42  Gift  hans kone 
............. 
Niels Sørensen 21  Ugift  Tjenestekarl 
Michel Pedersen 28  Gift  betjente ved møllen

He's married, but his wife isn't here, and he may already be estranged.
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Homer Ficken

Thanks Lis, Lissa, and Ralph!   Looks like the origin of Peder Christian Michelsen Degn's two surnames is confirmed.

And, Ørnstrup mill was apparently in nearby Rakkeby parish, not in Vejle.
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Ralph Rasmussen

Ørndrup is about 10 km. WSW of Frøslev.  A second look at the record confirms that spelling.
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Ralph Rasmussen Dato 25 Apr 2013 - 00:57
Ørndrup is about 10 km. WSW of Frøslev.  A second look at the record confirms that spelling.

- and in Karby parish, next west of Rakkeby.

Thanks again Ralph.  I envy your skill with the old handwriting.
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Homer Ficken

Citat fra: Ralph Rasmussen Dato 24 Apr 2013 - 23:47
Michel was just a hand.  The parentheses reads: NB, gift Mand, Nota bene, married man.

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Rakkeby, Rachebye, en gaard og mølle, F4, FT-1834, B6223
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Christensen 42  Gift  Gaardmand og møller 
Zidsel Jensdatter 42  Gift  hans kone 
............. 
Niels Sørensen 21  Ugift  Tjenestekarl 
Michel Pedersen 28  Gift  betjente ved møllen

He's married, but his wife isn't here, and he may already be estranged.

Michel may have just been "almost" married:

FamilySearch lists marriage at Frøslev 23 March 1834 of Michel Pedersen born 19 Feb 1805 to Ane Elsabeth Christensdatter born 25 Jan 1810.

This may be Ane in the Frøslev census,18 Feb 1834:

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Aandrup by, , En gaard, 43, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Niels Christian Jensen 39  Ugift  Gaardmand 
Else Jensdatter 50  Ugift  Hans søster, huusholderske 
Peder Christian Olesen 32  Gift  Tjenestekarl (Konen er tilhuse i et Huus i Outrup Sogn) 
Michel Jensen Trælborg 37  Gift  Tjenestekarl (Konen beboer et Huus i Tødsøe Sogn) 
Niels Christian Melsen 18  Ugift  Tjenestedreng 
Ane Elisabeth Christensdatter 25  Ugift  Tjenestepige  
Ane Marie Christensdatter 15  Ugift  Tjenestepige
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Ralph Rasmussen

Ah, the thin line between engaged and married, especially in the eighteenth century.  The census taker would have been following tradition.
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Inger Toudal

#13

Moderen, ugift Ane Nielsdatter
hjemme hos sin Moder Karen Degn
i Frøslev. Som Barnefader blev i
Overværelse af Gaardmand Søren
Pedersen Overgaard og dennes Broder
Jens Nielsen Pedersen, begge af Frøslev,
udlagt: Michel Pedersen Redsted
Møller paa Ørndrup Mølle (NB gift Mand)


The child was, in the presence of farmer SPO and his brother JNP, both of Frøslev, fathered on: MPR

The marriage record 1834 is on opslag 116 in Frøslev 1814-1845. The groom is said to be living with his father Peder Michelsen in Eerslev. Michel Dahlgaard, 29, ugift, is seen in the 1834 census for Erslev, Morsø Nørre. Here with wife and children:

Thisted, Morsø Nørre, Galtrup, Tøving bye, Et Huus, 13, FT-1850, B2402
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Michel Pedersen Dahlgaard   45    Gift      Husmand. husfader   Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Elisabeth Christensen   40    Gift      Hans kone   Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Christen Michelsen Dahlgaard   15    Ugift      Deres børn   Erslev sogn, Thisted amt
Anders Christian Michelsen Dahlgaard   10    Ugift      Deres børn   Frøslev sogn, Thisted amt
Ane Michelsen   7    Ugift      Deres børn   Her i sognet
Niels Christian Michelsen   4    Ugift      Deres børn   Her i sognet
Jens Christian Michelsen   1    Ugift      Deres børn   Her i sognet

So he's not the fellow you're looking for.

The 1840 census For Morsø Nørre and Morsø Sønder has been lost. This could be the alleged father in later censuses:

Name: Michel Pedersen   Age: 39   Marital status: Gift
Occupation: Møllerkarl   Birth place: Skjoldborg Thisted amt
Census year: FT-1845   County: Thisted   District: Refs   Parish: Hvidbjerg   Place name: Hovedgaarden Hindsels

Name: Michel Pedersen   Sex: M   Age: 43   Marital status: Gift
Occupation: Møllerkarl, boer ellers paa ?   Birth place: Skjoldborg, Th A
Census year: FT-1850   County: Thisted   District: Refs   Parish: Hvidbjerg   Place name: Styvl Bye
Title no /address: Hindsels Hovedgaard

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Nees by, , Neessunds færgegaard, 9, FT-1855
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Pedersen   49    Gift   Færgekarle      Skjoldborg sogn, her i amtet
- - - - -

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Karby by, , En gaard, 23, FT-1860
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Pedersen   54    Gift   Tjenestekarl      Skjoldborg s., Thisted amt

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Agger, , Gaardfæster, 11, FT-1870
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
- - - - -
Mikkel Møller   64    Gift   Tjenestekarl      Skjoldborg, Thisted amt
- - - - -

- always living apart from his wife! Perhaps Møller in the birth record is a byname?

He was born 4 Nov. 1806 (Skjoldborg, Hundborg, Thisted 1764-1835, opslag 111 at the top). His parents:

Thisted, Hundborg, Skjoldborg, Nørre Skioldborg Bye, , 18, FT-1801, b6099
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      
Peder Nielsen Skadholm   55    Gift   huusbonde   bonde og gaardbeboer   
Maren Nielsdatter   32    Gift   hans kone      
Else Marie Pedersdatter   16    Ugift   hans børn      
Christen Pedersen   10    Ugift   hans børn

This could be the mother of Peder Christian Michelsen:

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Karby, Agger Bye, , Et hus, 4, FT-1834
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      
Niels Nielsen   62    Gift      Inderste og aftægtsmand   
Inger Jensdatter   56    Gift      Hans kone [Niels Nielsen]   
Anne Nielsdatter   26    Ugift      Plejedatter [Niels Nielsen, Inger Jensdatter]

Best regards,
Inger Toudal
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Homer Ficken

Thanks Inger, coincidence of names is so common in Danish records.

Ane Nielsdatter was a busy lady -

Ane's mother in 1834:

Thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev, , Et huus, 13, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter 51  Ugift  Væverske 
Niels Michelsen 13  Ugift  Hendes søn 
Niels Peder Christensen 5  Ugift  Hendes dattersøn [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 19]

In 1845:

thisted, Morsø Sønder, Frøslev, Frøslev bye, , Et huus, 34, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Karen Olesdatter Degn 62  Ugift  Dagleierske Jørdsby Thisted amt
Ane Nielsdatter 37  Ugift  Hendes datter Heri sognet
Ferdinand Otto Poulsen 11  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 29]
Peter Christian Michelsen 9  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 32]
Niels Andreas Johansen 3  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 38]
Søren Christian Johansen 2  Ugift  Dennes børn Heri sognet [mother Ane Nielsdatter, Frøslev opslag 40]


Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-