Having difficuties finding the death/burial records of Clausen family

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Hello again,
Please see my previous post today. This is the third area of difficulty in my Genealogical research on my Danish ancestors.

#3 Death/burial records for the Clausen children of Peter Olivarius Clausen records are not in the LDS Mormon databases available online and searching the Kirkebog seem a lost cause because I am not certain where the family lived when any or if they died. I tried Trinitatis But I don't seem to find anything.
-  Peter Nicolaj Clausen, c., in 03/01/1802, in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark.
-  Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen, c., in 30/05/1803, in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark. d. 1880
-  Henriche Wilhelmine Clausen, c., in 02/12/1804, in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark.
-  Henriette Wilhelmine Clausen, c., in 02/07/1806, in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark.
-  Jacob Ferdinand Clausen, b., 29/05/1807, in Kobenhavn, Denmark; c., 14/07/1807, in Trinitatis,          Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark; d., in about 1858, in Brazil
-  Ida Elise Clausen, c., in 17/05/1813, in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark.

Does anyone have any thoughts.

It is possible  that the first child of Peter Olivarius Clausen, Peter Nicolaj Clausen is the famous Peter Claussen in Brazil that will change the life of the famous paleontologist Peter Wilhelm Lund. According to most biographies (they often copied each other for whatever it is worth) Peter Claussen was born in Copenhagen and left due to a fraud. He then resurfaces in Brasil as a soldier in the Cisplatine War 1825. Can anyone think of a strategy to find out info about the infamous fraud. Is there a way to do online research in Danish newspapers of the era like in Brazil? Police records?

Again thanks for any help,

Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Pamela Alley]

Hi Jean-Claude

I found a Peter Nicolay Claussen (sic) on Family Search, son of Peter Olivarius Clausen and Anne Cathrine Fischer, dead in London in 1855. There was no other information about him.

There's also a tree on Ancestry.com that has Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen married 6 April 1831 to Rejmer Timotheus Kehlet and having 6 children:

1. Nicoline Timothea b. 19 April 1831 m. 19 April 1858 Carl Christian Wilhelm Andreasen d. 21 July    1886
2. Reimer Johannes b. 1 May 1832 m. 26 Nov 1867 Hulda Emilie Vilhelmine Ottesen in Skt Johannes kirke Copenhagen d. 14 Nov 1870 Copenhagen
3. Nicoline Cecilie b. 20 March 1834 d. 24 Sept 1836 Copenhagen
4. Thorvald Peter Ferdinand b. 4 Dec 1835 m. 14 Oct 1860 Johanne Amalie Emilie Dahlin d. 7 Oct 1906 Copenhagen
5. Ferdinand Timotias b. 24 Sept 1837 m. 8 June 1862 Mathilde Rasmine Marie Jensen d. 1 Sept 1910 Copenhagen
6. Viggo Mads Vinting b. 30 Jan 1840 Copenhagen m. 28 April 1861 Karen Marie Jacobsen in Lundforlund, Sorø d. 3 July 1913 Vordingborg, Præstø

Here's the family in 1855 with a son Harold Herman who was not included on the Ancestry tree.

Samtlige personer i husstanden

København, Sokkelund, Frederiksberg, Frederiksberg, Værnedamsvejen - Colossæum, Et Traktørsted, FT-1855, C6950
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:      Stilling i husstanden:      Erhverv:      Fødested:
Reimert Timotheus Kehlet   80    Gift   Student, Tracteur, husejer, husfader      Odense
Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Kehlet   50    Gift   Hans kone      København
Harald Herman Kehlet   14    Ugift   Deres barn      Frederiksberg
Timothea Nicoline Kehlet   24    Ugift   Deres barn      Frederiksberg

I couldn't find any information about the other Clausen children you're looking for but maybe someone else will have some luck.

Regards

Pam Alley

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Hi Pam,
I thank you for your time in helping me. I need clarification on what you found.
I have found many things in the UK but not a death record as you describe in FamilySearch :
Peter Nicolay Claussen, son of Peter Olivarius Clausen and Anne Cathrine Fischer dead in London on 1855.

How did you get this info on Familysearch? I have searched for that many times and he only shows up once for his birth/christening. Did you find the date of death elsewhere? ie the Wikipedia on Peter Claussen with the Brazil history and the 1855 London death. The problem is that all the biographies fail to add the Nicolay (sic) to the name or mention any info on his family. Peter Clausen is a common name in Denmark and there are a few other candidates in the same time period. I have actually discovered (and made a little history) that the Peter Claussen that was in brazil with Lund was incorrectly given 1855 as his death year (1855 is when he ended up in a debtor prison and later a lunatic asylum) and he actually died in 1872 (I have 2 obituaries, the death register and the asylum medical files.)

But if you found the 1855 death in Family search with a father and mother mention that would be important because it would be potential proof the Claussen in brazil is not related to our family.

Thank You for the Kehlet tree. I have discovered it before and I met Anne Kehlet (My fifth degree cousin) in Copenhagen last year. Good searching.

With many thanks for your help.

JEan-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Hi Jean-Claude,

when you search for Peter Nicolay Claussen on FS, then look at the bottom of the search results page.
You should see something like:

Search Results from User Submitted Genealogies

    Peter Nicolay /CLAUSSEN/
    Peter Olivarius /CLAUSSEN/ Anne Cathrine /FISCHER/

His name is a link to a family tree:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3S6Q-DF9

There is a note on his death:

Died in Camberwell Insane Asylum

Best regards
Søren

[Pamela Alley]

Hi Jean-Claude

Have you seen this?

http://sumidoiro.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/lunatic-camberwell-peter-pedro-chevalier-claussen-flax-cotton-friedrich-sellow-curvelo-lund-melancias-sete-lagoas-darwin-kildinan-marx-leeds-elizabeth-rawdon-lady-moir/

Regards

Pam

[Pamela Alley]

Also this

http://kiki.huh.harvard.edu/databases/botanist_search.php?botanistid=73541

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

I found his birth record on FS. He is registered with the patronym Pedersen instead of the family name Clausen:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYG8-V4M

The record is in church book for Trinitatis 1793-1811 opslag 142.
It is noted that he is baptised at home Dec 12, 1801.
This is most likely on his day of birth.

Well, you already knew that 

I have never before heard about this man, who seems to be famous in certain parts of the world - amazing story.

Best regards
Søren

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

The WrightFam family tree on Ancestry, showed Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen including her death record:

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/12333426/person/-286262322?ssrc=

She dies Dec 12, 1880 on Frederiksberg, Copenhagen - church book Frederiksberg 1878-1882 opslag 243, no 248.

Best regards
Søren

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

This record could be your Henriette Wilhelmine Clausen in the 1845 census.

København, København (Staden), Nørre Kvarter, Nørre Kvarter I, Teglgaardstræde No. 191, Første Sahl, 1389, FT-1845, C2839
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Christian Emiel Synnestvedt 26  Ugift  Polyt: Cand: Logerende Kjøbenh.
Wilhelmine Henriette Clausen 38  Enke  Pangsion Kjøbenh.
Emma Wilhelmine Thimm 24  Ugift  Hendes Stifdatter Kjøbenh.

Best regards
Søren

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Marriage record for Henriette Wilhelmine Clausen and Peter Marcus Timm:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FK7P-NPR

Best regards
Søren

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Hi Pamela,

Unfortunately when I started my interest in my ancestry I put in a family tree in Family Search and since then I have updated all  the records and generally rewritten my early family history. That records refers to the Lagrange Coris Claussen source and that was when I was told that Peter Claussen was a relation and died in London in 1855. You are referring my earlier incorrect family tree in FS. I am so embarassed. I will contact them to remove it because a lot of the info has since been corrected by the records I have found.

Thank you for the information on Peter Claussen. the Sumidoiro blog was very good research by Mr. De Paula. Since then I have greatly expanded the knowledge base and corrected the records on Peter Clausen (Claussen). I have found dozens of records and have traced great parts of his life. I truly feel on a mission to rediscover Peter Clausen's life and bring it to light in Brazil and Denmark as a forgotten and controversial prodigal son. But is he related to my family and the Peter Nicolaj Clausen born in 1801.
Here comes some complicated facts

Nicolay Clausen b. Flensburg

There is a disturbing fact, Søren Juul Mikkelsen has actually stumbled on it. Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen's name is a potential clue to the death of Peter Nicolaj Clausen.

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Wilhelmine Henriette Timm dies May 30, 1845.
København, Vor Frue 1835-1853, opslag 278 no 127.

Best regards
Søren

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

I somehow sent the message before I could finish it. Here it goes again!

Hi Pamela,

Unfortunately when I started my interest in my ancestry I put in a family tree in Family Search and since then I have updated all  the records and generally rewritten my early family history. That records refers to the Lagrange Coris Claussen source and that was when I was told that Peter Claussen was a relation and died in London in 1855. You are referring my earlier incorrect family tree in FS. I am so embarassed. I will contact them to remove it because a lot of the info has since been corrected by the records I have found.

Thank you for the information on Peter Claussen. the Sumidoiro blog was very good research by Mr. De Paula. Since then I have greatly expanded the knowledge base and corrected the records on Peter Clausen (Claussen). I have found dozens of records and have traced great parts of his life. I am not braagging in saying that I am likely the person with the most information on Peter Claussen. I truly feel on a mission to rediscover Peter Clausen's life and bring it to light in Brazil, England and Denmark as a forgotten and controversial prodigal son. But the question remains; Is he related to my family and the Peter Nicolaj Clausen born in 1801?

Here comes some complicating facts

Nicolay Clausen b. Flensburg Sometimes incorrectly shown in FS with his profession, Supercargo, as last name
  1st wife: Benedicte "Bente" Bilsted
           Son: Peter Olivarius Clausen, b. 1774
  2nd wife: Birgithe Suzanne Schiott
           Son: Nicolai Peter Clausen, b. 1804 (yes brother with 30 years difference!!!) found using
               http://www.danbbs.dk/~stst/kbh_kbg_reg/foedte_cd.htm

So we have the elder Nicolay Clausen having a son Nicolai Peter Clausen in 1804.
And the Younger Peter Olivarius Clausen having a son Peter Nicolaj Clausen in 1801.

Now the problem is that after the birth in 1804 no record is ever found on these people except for Peter Olivarius. But note that Peter Olivarius' next child (Søren Juul Mikkelsen has also found her) Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen b. 1803 may be a clue that Peter Nicolaj Clausen may have died between early 1802 and 1803. Correct me if I am wrong but in Danish traditional naming customs of the times after the death of a male child the next child if male could get the same name, or if a girl followed, the same name but with a -ine suffix. What should I do with this info??? This can only be resolved with some certainty if I could find what happened to Nicolay Clausen the 2nd wife Birgithe Schiott and the son Nicolai Peter Clausen. But the Census records are interrupted.

The words... What a mess! come to mind.
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate the fresh perspective.

Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Soren,

Thank you for your efforts. I only had Wilhelmine Henriette Clausen's marriage to Peter Marcus Timm. Her Death adds a little more to the puzzle. Any ideas on how to find out if she left any children?

Soren you are correct that Peter Clausen is a very interesting man. At his height he was in the 1851 World Fair in London and was one of the stars of the exhibition. Even the Prince Albert spent one hour on his booth discussing the potential of Flax-Cotton. Another technological change he was responsible for was the rotary knitting machine. If we enjoy socks, stockings, and other tubular knitted garments that are one piece with no side seams we can all thank Peter Clausen (AKA Chevalier Claussen in later life.)
It amazes me that Denmark (or the world) knows nearly nothing of this prodigal son. His insanity in later life, according to his doctors due to over-study (?!?), allowed him to fade away into oblivion. I sometimes feel his shadow as I research, beckoning me to push on and restore his place in history. When I laid flowers at his burial site (another discovery of mine) 140 years after his death it was an incredible feeling.

Many Thanks,

Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Soren, Pamela,

Last year when I went to Copenhagen I searched and found in the Kobnehans Politi Hovedjournal entries for Peter Nicolay Clausen (also from 1815 to 1823 for Peter Clausen, Peter Olivarius Clausen, and Nicolay Clausen.) Because it was my last day search I could only get the Hoved Journal entries. I will post them in a new topic.

Regards,

Jean-Claude Lagrange

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Jean-Claude,

do you have any other records regarding the other sisters?

I have to ask, since you knew more about Henriette Wilhelmine, so maybe it is also the case for the other girls.

Best regards
Søren

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Soren,

Of the children that we know survived we have the birth registers and

-  Peter Nicolaj Clausen, baptism record only. Confirmation not found. Suspected to go to Brazil c.1825.
-  Nicoline Hermandine Petrine Clausen, Marries Kehlet very well documented by Kehlet family.
-  Henriche Wilhelmine Clausen, baptism record only. I suspect she died as child but no proof beyond the similar name of next child.
-  Henriette Wilhelmine Clausen, marries Peter Marcus Timm. Some documentation by you. No child?
-  Jacob Ferdinand Clausen, baptism record only. He goes to Brazil in 1828 followed by a number of trips to Europe. To Denmark in 1834 marries and goes back to Brazil permanently. Maybe with others.
-  Ida Elise Clausen, baptism record only. No documentation found but we suspect she went to Brazil in 1834 with brother Jacob and new wife No trace in Brazil.

The strange part is the lack of death registers (likely looking in the wrong places) for some of them. Too bad the census was not there to help see the household.

Any specific records you have in mind.

Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Jean-Claude,

I have looked at some other probate records, the socalled "hvidebøger" (white books).
These records show dead children or married persons where there is no probate of the estate - it would simply be passed to the surviving spouse.
The records have an index at the end of each book.

Unfortunately there is a gap in the records from 1797-1809, but in the period 1809-1816 I did not find any of the Clausen children as dead.
But in 1816 there is a record of Anne Cathrine Clausen, the wife of Peter Olivarius.
Look at opslag 279 of the Hvidebog that covers May 1816.

The interesting thing is that it mentions that their are 5 children of their marriage.
So only one of the 6 children has died before May 1816.

Next step is to find the dead child in the period 1802-1809.

Best regards
Søren

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Jean-Claude,

I searched through Trinitatis church book for dead children of hørkræmmer Clausen, and finally found one.

Henrikke dies Saturday 18 January 1806, see Trinitatis 1805-1817 opslag 9 left side, number 3 from the bottom:

Januaru Maaned 1806
...
18 löverdag, hørkræmmer Klausens 1 aar gl. datter Henrikke fra Adelgaden 276 død den 17de af Slag.

18 Saturday, drysalter (deals with flax, etc.) Klausen's 1 year old daughter Henrikke from Adelgaden 276 died the 17th of a stroke.

Best regards
Søren

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Dear Soren,

You are a saviour!!! Simply amazing. I have been frustrated by this for months. It is hard to explain to others how hard it is to find and translate those Danish records, especially when I don't speak Danish.
I now can confirm that Henriette Wilhelmine was named in honour of the dead Henriche (Henrikke). It also keeps Peter Nicolaj Claussen alive for the likely departure to Brazil.

Now, the police investigation records become more important. Especially because the last two items in the Hovedjournal you translated did not provide much information.

Another speculation is that Peter Olivarius Clausen gave his eldest son a better education. While Peter Clausen in Barzil, Belgium, and England was generally considered an amateur scientist he did navigate the fields of biology, botany, geology, agriculture, business with a certain level of sophistication that hints at some higher education. Even Peter Wilhelm Lund decried his moral character but admitted his intelligence and how hard he worked. He was even instituted to the lunatic asylum in london under the cause of epilepsy with delusions caused by over-study. It was a very unusual cause. He may have attended Kobenhavn University or a private upper class school of the early 1800s where he got the superior skills to become the self educated man of his latter years. Soren do you have any ideas if there is a student registration archive for the Kobenhavn University or records for some of the better schools of the era?

With great thanks for the immense help you are providing me.
Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange]

Hi Soren,
In searching for the supposed fraud committed by Peter Clausen I always thought that newspapers would be a logical source of information. I only found references through DAISY that point to some archives but that are of more recent newspapers and nothing online available to the public. Since language may be the reason I could not find an online database of danish newspaper do you know of any such searchable database? France, UK, even Brazil have them so I am surprised that I could not find anything in Denmark
Regards,
Jean-Claude Clausen Lagrange

[Søren Juul Mikkelsen]

Hi Jean-Claude,

I do not know of any online searchable database of danish newspapers.

According to the following news letter:

http://danskemedier.dk/nyhed/statsbiblioteket-indscanner-32-millioner-danske-avissider/

they should this year have started scanning old newspapers, but it will certainly take some time before that job is done.

Can you give me links to the online historical newspapers from Brazil and UK? I would love to have a look at it.

Regarding København Universitet I would expect that some archives would have names of students way back, at least if they finished some kind of exam. But it is not something I have been able to verify, and you would have to contact the state archives to get more information.

But if you get the police records, I would expect that they would also mention some kind of job title/education.

Best regards
Søren