Peter N. Nielsen and Caroline Fredericka Harding born in 1850s

[Andy Neilson]

Hello,

I ask your help in finding records of my great-great grandparents and their families. They were born in Denmark, but I do not know what part of Denmark. Here is what I know.

My great-great grandparents:
Peter N. Nielsen, born in 1853, came to the U.S. in 1879. No information about his parents.
Caroline Fredericka Harding, born 23 January 1857, came to the U.S. in 1880. No information about her parents.

Caroline's brother and his family:
Peter N. Harding, born in September 1849.
Mette Kirstine Christensen, born in April 1848.
Peter N. Harding and Mette Kirstine Christensen were married in 1869 or 1870.
Christine H. Harding, born 31 March 1870.
Esther Elisabeth Harding, born 15 May 1879.
Peter, Mette, Christine, and Esther came to U.S. about 1883.

In 1948, some of my relatives came to Denmark to visit their Danish cousins. I do not know who they visited. Maybe there is a way to discover this. Here are the names of my relatives and when they departed from Denmark:

Marie (Nielsen) Parsons and Carrie (Nielsen) Osgerby, daughters of Peter and Caroline Nielsen, sailed from Copenhagen to the U.S. on the S.S. Batory 28 September 1948.
Esther Elisabeth (Harding) Holt, sailed from Copenhagen to the U.S. on the S.S. Batory 27 October 1948.

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. I would like to know my Danish family.

Best regards,

Andrew Christie Neilson

[John Wrenholt]

I  have found a family that matches up with what you are seeking.  Some of the dates are different but that is not unusual. I was not able to find any connection to the name Harding. Perhaps it was something that was added when they went to the U.S.

Caroline Frederikke Nielsen was born 23 Jan, 1854 in Laurbjerg sogn which is in Randers amt.  Her older brother Peder Christian Nielsen was born 23 Sep 1844 in Oster Tørslev.  Their parents were Niels Christian Pedersen and Marie Elisabeth Sørensdatter.

Peder Christian married Mette Kirstine Christensen in Thisted on 11 Dec, 1869.  They had a daughter named Kristine who was born 31 Mar, 1870 in Thisted.  I have not be able to locate the birth record for Ester Elisabeth.

Mette Kirstine Christensen was born 1 Apr, 1847 in Thisted.  Her parents were Christen Christensen and Ane Elisabeth Stæhr. 

Thisted, Hundborg, Thisted Købstad, -, Brand nr. 175, 392, FT-1855, C9279
Chr. Christensen    40   Gift   Stolemagermester. huusfader      Albech
Ane Elisabeth Stæhr    39   Gift   Hans kone      Hundborg Sogn, Thisted Amt
Mathilde Christensen    16   Ugift   Deres datter      Aalborg
Andrea Christensen    14   Ugift   Deres datter      Thisted
Mette Kirstine Christensen    8   Ugift   Deres datter      Thisted
Jacobine Christensen    7   Ugift   Deres datter      Thisted
Caroline Christensen    6   Ugift   Deres datter      Thisted
Elisabeth Christensen    2   Ugift   Deres datter      Thisted
Jens Larsen Blach    20   Ugift   Lærling      Vandet Sogn, Thisted Amt

Randers, Galten, Laurbjerg, [Laurbjerg Mark], et Huus, 59, FT-1860, C6083
Niels Christian Pedersen    45   gift   Møllesvend, Huusfader      i Sognet
Marie Elisabeth Sørensdat.    39   gift   hans Kone      Vester Tørslev, Rand. Amt
Karen Kirstine Nielsen    12   ugift   [deres datter]      i Sognet
Søren Nielsen    10   ugift   [deres søn]      [i Sognet]
Inger Kirstine Nielsen    9   ugift   [deres datter]      [i Sognet]
Caroline Frederichke Nielsen    6   ugift   [deres datter]      [i Sognet]
Christen Nielsen    5   ugift   [deres søn]      [i Sognet]
Inger Olesdatt.    71   Enke   forsørges af Huusfaderen      [i Sognet]

Caroline Frederikke Nielsen's birth: 1848-1868 Laurbjerg, Galten, Randers ops 52
Peder Christian Nielsen's birth: 1832-1846 Oster Tørslev, Gjerlev, Randers op 48
Peder Christian & Mette Kirstine marriage:  1854-1869 Thisted, Hundborg, Thisted ops 467
Mette Kirstine Christensen's birth:  1837-1853 Thisted, Hundborg, Thisted ops 185
Kirstine Nielsen's birth" 1870-1882 Thisted, Hundborg, Thisted ops 169

[John Wrenholt]

I have found Esther's birth record.  She was born 15 May, 1879 in Aarhus and baptized with the name Astrid Elisabeth Christine Nielsen  (1878-1881 Aarhus Domsogn, Hasle, Aarhus ops 219).  Two of the witnesses at the christening are Caroline Nielsen and P. Nielsen. Could they be your great-great grand parents?

Here is the family in the 1880 census:

Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, Århus Købstad 9, 902/meilgade, 64, FT-1880, a4181

Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Pos. in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Lars Nielsen    49   Gift       Husfader, Arbeidsmand   Kraiberg
Stine Nielsen    47   Gift         Grenaa
Laurits Nielsen    15   Ugift       Søn, Lærling   Aarhus
Dorthea Marie Nielsen    12   Ugift         Aarhus
Mikkoline Nielsen    9   Ugift         Aarhus
Sine Nielsen    6   Ugift         Aarhus
Peter Christian Nielsen    36   Gift       Husfader, Detaillist   Laurberg
Mette Kirstine Nielsen Født Christiansen    33   Gift         Thisted
Christine Nielsen    4   Ugift         Thisted
Astrid Elisabet Nielsen    3/4   Ugift         Aarhus
Inger Marie Andersen    20   Ugift         Skjoldborg
Hans Krøl    26   Ugift         Lolland
Ditlev Frederik Suplé    51   Gift       Husfader, Arbeidsmand   Fredericia
Dorothea Henriette Suplé Født Taube    51   Gift         Kiel
Helena Suplé    14   Ugift         Slagelse
Frederik Suplé    12   Ugift         Frederiksborg

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I think the connection to the name' Harding' can be found if you look one generation back.

Caroline Fredericke's father is listed in the census for 1840 together with his parents:

Randers, Galten, Laurbjerg, Laurberg by, , 30, FT-1840, B5284

Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:
Peder Christensen Harding    63    Gift       tømmermand   
Inger Olesdatter    51    Gift       hans kone   
Niels Christian Pedersen    25    Ugift       deres barn   
Søren Pedersen    13    Ugift       deres barn   
Else Pedersdatter    63    Enke(mand)       indsidder

And here he is listed with the name Harding.

regards,
Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

And in the census for 1834:

Randers, Galten, Laurbjerg, Laurberg by, , 11, FT-1834, B5283

Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Peder Christjan Harding    57    Gift       daglejer   
Inger Olesdatter    46    Gift       hans kone   
Ole Pedersen    15    Ugift       deres barn   
Anders Pedersen    11    Ugift       deres barn   
Søren Pedersen    7    Ugift       deres barn   
Else Pedersdatter    53    Enke(mand)       inderste, lever af håndarbejde

/ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hi Andrew
Here is some more on Caroline:

Caroline Frederikke Nielsen 
*23 Jan. 1855 in Laurbjerg, Randers (not 1854 according to churchrecords)

Parents:
Niels Christian Pedersen *14. may 1815 Laurbjerg, Randers (opsl. 5)
Marie Elisabeth Sørensdatter *6.oct 1821 Øster Tørslev, Randers

Siblings (from the census and churchrecords)
Peter Christian Nielsen*23 SEP 1844, Øster Tørslev, Randers
Karen Kirstine Nielsen ca. 1847
Søren Nielsen *22 JUN 1849, Laurbjerg, Randers
Inger Kirstine Nielsen *28. JUN 1850, Laurbjerg, Randers
Christian Nielsen *21 JUL 1853, Laurbjerg, Randers
Christen Nielsen *27 SEP 1857, Laurbjerg, Randers
Bodil Christine Nielsen *21 SEP 1861, Laurbjerg, Randers
Kirsten Marie Nielsen *18 APR 1864, Laurbjerg, Randers

Father - Niels Christian Pedersen's parents (from census / birth record):
Peder Christian Harding,  ca. 1777, snedker i Laurbjerg (profession: Carpenter)
Bodild Kirstine Christensdatter, *Jan 1782. †19. Jul 1815 Laurbjerg, Randers (opsl. 151)

(Inger Olesdatter is listed as Peder Christensens wife in the census in 1834, but she is not the mother of Niels Christian, according to the churchrecords).

Grandfather - Peder Christian Harding's parents:
Census 1787:
Randers, Støvring, Gimming, Gimming Sogn, Gimming Bye Et Kongl funderet Skolehuus, 12, FT-1787, B8204
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Degn Andreas Harding    53    Gift   Hosbonde    Sogne Degn og Skoleholder   
Anne Pedersdatter Vinther    41    Gift   Madmoder      
Anne Magrethe Harding    12    -   Børn      
Adamine Hansine Harding    9    -   Børn      
Peder Christian Harding    7    -   Børn      
Frideriche Magrethe Harding    4    -   Børn      
Jens Langballe Harding    2    -   Børn      
Anne Christensdatter    26    Ugift   Tienestefolk


Grandmother – Bodild Kirstine Christensdatter's parents:
Census 1801:
Randers, Galten, Laurbjerg, Laurberg by, , 17. familie, FT-1801, B3150

Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   
Kristen Melchiorsen   77    Gift   mand    husmand med jord   
Inger Pedersdatter    56    Gift   hans kone      
Bodild Kirstine Kristensdatter    18    Ugift   deres børn      
Ane Kathrine Kristensdatter    15    Ugift   deres børn

Mother – Marie Elisabeth Sørensdatter's parents (from census):
Randers, Gjerlev, Øster Tørslev, Øster Tørslev, et Huus, 33, FT-1834, C3361

Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   
Søren Nielsen Alstrup    50    Gift       Huusmand og Dagleier   
Kirsten Christensdatter    48    Gift       hans Kone   
Marie Elsebeth Sørensdatter    14    Ugift       deres Datter

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Peder Christian Harding's Grandparents
(source Nygaards sedler http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/sogeside.asp):

Adam Hansen, *MAR 1692 †22 NOV 1774, Astrup, Aalborg
Mette Magrethe Harding *1709 †01 FEB 1791, Astrup, Aalborg

Peder Christian's father and his father's siblings:
Dortea Marie *1732, Astrup, Aalborg
Mette Katrine *11 OCT 1733, Astrup, Aalborg
Andreas Harding *1734 †31 MAY 1805, Astrup, Aalborg
Anne Elisabeth *1736, Astrup, Aalborg
Johanne *1738, Astrup, Aalborg
Jens Langballe *26 DEC 1740, Astrup, Aalborg

Peter Christian's siblings:
Anne Magrethe Harding *5 MAY 1775, Gimming, Randers
Mette Kirstine Harding *29 SEP 1776, Gimming, Randers      
Adamine Hansine Harding * 23 MAR 1778, Gimming, Randers       
Peder Christian Harding *19 NOV 1780, Gimming, Randers       
Frederikke Margrete Harding    *02 MAR 1783, Gimming, Randers    
Jens Langballe Harding *19 JUN 1785 †25 MAR 1789, Gimming, Randers
Jens Langballe Harding *21 NOV 1790, Gimming, Randers

/ Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

When looking in the churchrecords, we can find that

Niels Christain Pedersen dies on 24 SEP 1884 in Laurbjerg, Randers
And his is buried on 30 SEP 1884. Cause of death: Diarrhea

And - apparently his wife dies the next day. Cause of death is stated as 'Heart failure (surden death)'.
They are burried together.

Marie Elisabeth Sørensdatter dies on 25 SEP 1884 in Laurbjerg, Randers
Buried on 30 SEP 1884. Cause of death: Heart failure

/ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I guess you're a actually also trying to find the family in Denmark.

On Carolines siblings, there is the following recordings in the churchrecords:

Inger Kirstine Nielsen marries 21 OKT 1871 Laurbjerg, Randers
Thyge Andreas Jensen *1845

Kirsten Marie Nielsen marries 7 NOV 1882 Laurbjerg, Randers
Marius Carlsen *15 SEP 1858 Astrup, Aalborg

Bodil Christine Nielsen marries 24 MAY 1884 Laurbjerg, Randers
Søren Lauritsen * 13 MAY 1825 Hvinning dal, Viborg

/ellen

[Andy Neilson]

John Wrenholt and Ellen Steen-Petersen,

Thank you for sharing this information about my great-great grandmother Caroline Frederikke Nielsen Harding and her family. I knew almost nothing of my Danish family, and now I know many things. My next step will be to learn more about the parishes where these families lived. You have made me very happy.

Andy Neilson

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hi Andy
As far as I can see on Ancestry, your great-great grandfather Peter N. Nielsen was born on 16 OCT 1853 and died 5 FEB 1891.

Is that correct?

We can try to look for him in the church-records / censuses, although is will not be easy unless you have more information, as the name is rather common.

regards
Ellen

[John Wrenholt]

I find a Peder Nielsen born 16 October, 1853 in Lading parish in Aarhus.

1835-1853 Lading, Sabro, Aarhus ops 29

Aarhus, Sabro, Lading, Skjoldelev Bye, 1. et Huus, 146-F1, FT-1860, C0512

Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Pos. in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Niels Pedersen    44   Gift   daglejer      Foldby
Ane Marie Andersen    40   Gift   hans Kone. Huusmoder      Sabro
Jens Nielsen    14   Ugift   deres Børn      Sabro
Mariane Nielsen    12   Ugift   deres Børn      Lading
Karen Nielsen    9   Ugift   deres Børn      Lading
Peder Nielsen    6   Ugift   deres Børn      Lading
Kjersten Marie Nielsen    3   Ugift   deres Børn      Lading

Further research may rule him out but he seems like a good candidate.

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I must admit, John, you're good. 

If we asume the Peter Nielsen who is one of the witness at Ester's baptism is Andy's grand-grand father it makes sense, that he will be from the Aarhus area.
I checked most of the other Peter/Peder Nielsens who has about the right age in the census for the Aarhus Area - and also for the Randers area. And none of them is born on 16 OCT 1853.

/ellen

[John Wrenholt]

Here are the records showing Esther's (Astrid) family departing Denmark in 1883.

Name:   Nielsen, Peder   Occupation:   Tømrer
Age:   38   Destination:   Newyork
Contract no.:   193200   Registration date:   6/8/1883
Last res. parish:   Århus   Last res. county:   Århus
Last residence:   Aarhus   Destination country:   USA
Destination city:   New York City   Destination state:   New York State
Name of ship:   Heimdal
Remarks:   ANM: Heimdal   IDcode:   D8283Ø0804

Name:   Nielsen, Kirstine   Occupation:   Hustru
Age:   35   Destination:   Newyork

Name:   Nielsen, Christine   Occupation:   Barn
Age:   15   Destination:   Newyork

Name:   Nielsen, Astrid   Occupation:   Barn
Age:   04   Destination:   Newyork

This is probably Caroline Frederikke's departure in 1880 (assuming she was living in Aarhus at time)

Name:   Nielsen, Caroline   Occupation:   Jomfru
Age:   27   Destination:   Detroit, Mich.
Contract no.:   74700   Registration date:   8/4/1880
Last res. parish:   Århus   Last res. county:   Århus
Last residence:   Aarhus   Destination country:   USA
Destination city:   Detroit   Destination state:   Michigan
Name of ship:   Thingvalla
IDcode:   D7181N2008

[Andy Neilson]

This is interesting information about Peder Nielsen. I know he was born in 1853, and died 5 Feb 1891, but I do not know the exact date of his birth. If his birth date was 16 Oct 1853, then I agree that the Peder Nielsen you found in Aarhus is probably the same person. Where did you see the birth date 16 Oct 1853 associated with my great-great grandfather?

Regards,
Andy

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hi Andy

This is where I found the info ...
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/50733847/person/13099014564 (ftp://http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/50733847/person/13099014564)

Regards
Ellen

[Andy Neilson]

Ellen,

I can confirm that Peder N. Nielsen was born 16 Oct 1853. This information comes from my second cousin (once removed). His mother, a granddaughter of Peder N. Nielsen, had records of Peder's birth date. She thought he was born in Copenhagen. Was there a Peder Nielsen born in Copenhagen on 16 Oct 1853?

I think it is more likely that my Peder N. Nielsen was the one born in Lading. There are two reasons: he can be found in the Aarhus area, and Peder and Caroline named their first daughter Anne Marie Neilson (the mother of Peder Nielsen born in Lading was Ane Marie Andersen). I will continue this research, but this Peder Nielsen feels like the right one.

Regards,
Andy

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hi Andy
I think the theory could be: Peter Nielsen and Peter Harding were working together. He is listed to have the same trade (detailist = shopkeeper/shopassistant) in the churchrecords.
Caroline and Peter Nielsen were both witnesses at Ester's baptism, and most likely they knew each other before they went to US, where they got married.

I can not say if there is a Peter Nielsen born on the same day in Copenhagen. First of all, the name is pretty common, secondly Copenhagen was already at that time a large city.
But the reason why they might he came from Copenhagen might be, that this could have been his Port of Departure.

But the 'evidence' of the name (his daugther been name after his mother) is also pretty good. Even in my generation (I'm in my fifties) this is the case for people in the country ... one of my cousines is name after my maternal grandmother, my brother is named after my paternal grandfather, I am name after my maternal great grandmother, my sister is name after my paternal great grandmother etc ..
It's only within the last 50-60 years this custom has been left.

Regard
Ellen

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

Hints on Peter Nielsen:

Peter/Peder Nielsen's father:

Churchrecords Foldby, Sabro, Århus 1814-1836, Opsl. 8
4 MAR 1816 Niels Pedersen
Parents: Peder Nielsen and Mariane Mogensdatter

Census 1801 - Mariane Mogensdatter and her mother:

Aarhus, Sabro, Foldby, Foldby By, , 5, FT-1801, B2714
Navn:Alder:Civilstand:Stilling i husstanden:Erhverv:Fødested:
Margrethe Thomesdatter   58   Enke   husmoder, gårdbeboer
Anders Jenssen   36   Ugift   hendes sønbestyrer gården
Simon Jenssen      17   Ugift   hendes søn
Mariane Mogensdatter   17   Ugift   tjenestepige

Census 1787 - Mariane Mogensdatter's father:

Aarhus, Sabro, Lading, Skjoldelev By, , 42, FT-1787, B2726
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:
Jacob Wacher   42   Gift   husbond   bonde, gårdbeboer og kværnmand
Kierstine Jensdatter   52   Gift   madmoder   
Barbara Jacobsdatter   13   -   deres datter af 1ste ægteskab   
Henrich Pedersen   40   Ugift   tjenestekarl   
Michel Pedersen   26   Ugift   tjenestekarl   
Mogens Christensen   41   Gift   tjenestekarl   
Kiersten Jensdatter   31   Ugift   tjenestepige   
Catrine Gothlibsdatter   53   Ugift   tjenestepige   
Kierstine Jensdatter   5   -   et fremmed barn   
Adrian Natus   29   Ugift   logerende   kedelfører
Willum Jansen   31   Ugift   logerende   kedelfører

Census 1787 - Mariane Mogensdatter and her mother
Aarhus, Sabro, Lading, Skjoldelev By, , 44, FT-1787, B2726
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Anne Marie Pedersdatter   35   Gift   kone   inderste, manden tjener   
Maren Mogensdatter   8   -   hendes datter i 1ste ægteskab      
Mariane Mogensdatter   4   -   hendes datter i 1ste ægteskab      
Christen Mogensen   1   -   hendes søn i 1ste ægteskab   

Census 1801 Peder Nielsen (Peter Nielsens' grandfather):
Aarhus, Sabro, Foldby, Tinning By, , 7, FT-1801, B2714
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Niels Nielsen   45   Gift   mand   tjener i Norring, og er indsidder i Tinning bye   
Maren Pedersdatter   43   Gift   hans kone   tjener i Zeuthen   
Peder Nielsen   14   Ugift   deres søn   tjener husmoderen   
Bodil Nielsdatter   11   Ugift   deres datter      
Niels Nielssen   6   Ugift   deres søn      
Jens Nielssen   3   Ugift   deres søn


Peder Nielsen's mother:

Churchrecord Sabro, Sabro, Århus 1814-1842, Opsl. 28.
05 FEB 1820
Ane Marie Andersdatter
Parents: Anders Kieldsen og Karen Jensdatter

Aarhus, Sabro, Sabro, Sabro Bye, hus, 16, FT-1834, B3038
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Anders Kjeldsen    48    Gift       daglejer   
Karen Jensdatter    50    Gift       hans kone   
Ane Marie Andersdatter    15    Ugift       deres datter   
Birthe Andersdatter    12    Ugift       deres datter   
Birthe Pedersdatter    85    Enke       husfaderens svigermoder der af ham forsørges

Regards
Ellen