Johan Joseph Hauptmann, died Dec 22, 1802 Haderslev, Denmark

[Anne-Lise Godfrey]

Hello, Forum.  I'm trying to get some information on Johan Joseph Hauptmann, who died in Haderslev, Denmark.  I do not think he was born in Denmark (Germany I think) but he died in Denmark and I would like to see if I can get some information about his parents off his death certificate.  He married Elsabe Wildschutz, who was born in Haderslev, Denmark in 1766.  It has just been in the past 6 years or so that I learned of my Danish heritage; I found I had a great grandfather (Sophus Emil Lauritz Hauptmann born 1852) from Denmark who immigrated to Norway (we didn't know much of anything about him because he never married my great grandmother and apparently had not much to do with his son, my grandfather because he did marry another woman and had 4 children.  I've been in contact with one of those descendants and after talking to some of the older family members said no one in the family even knew there was another child).  OK, this is probably to much information, but if anyone can tell me how I can see Johan (who I think is Sophus' great grandfather) I would greatly appreciate it.  Anne-Lise Godfrey

[Inger Buchard]

Do you know Johan Joseph Hauptmann's year of death?
I found the confirmation of a Johan Josef Hauptmann in the church records of Haderslev Vor Frue opslag 34
Aged 15 in 1809, i.e. born ab. 1794

This isn't his death, but maybe you didn't know it?

If this is the right person, his family is listed in the census 1803 of Haderslev:

Bishofsstrasse No. 168
Elisa Hauptmann geb. Wildschütz   37   Enke   Hausmutter   Arm, erhält Unterstützung aus der Armenkasse   
Joh. Hauptmann   9   Ugift   Ihre Kinder      
Ludewig Hauptmann   5   Ugift   Ihre Kinder      
Peter Hauptmann   1   Ugift   Ihre Kinder

Inger

[Ellen Steen-Petersen]

I think Anne-Lise means Johan Joseph Hauptmann who was married to Elisa or Elsabe Wildschütz.
In doesn't seem the family is in the churchrecords for Haderslev before Johan Joseph's confirmation in 1809.
Based on the name that Johan Joseph Hauptmann (the older) could be related to the Herrnhuts in Christianfeld.
cf https://tidsskrift.dk/index.php/historiejyskesamling/article/view/13536/25817

I think they had their own church from 1772 - and the church records are not on AO.

If you look at the census for Christiansfeld for 1803 there is a 'Johann Christoph Haupt'.
This could be a relative, maybe a brother?

/regards
Ellen

[John Wrenholt]

Isn't this the death record?   1802-1817 Haderslev vor Frue ops 342

[Inger Toudal]

How to find the death record that John spotted:

www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger
Amt: Haderslev
Herred: Haderslev
Sogn: Haderslev Vor Frue
Fra 1802 Til 1817
Opslag (image) 342, No 78:

Died Dec. 22, buried Dec. 25 1802.

Johann Joseph Haubtmann, musician,
legitimate son of the late Anton Haubtmann
in Wolfersdorf in Bohemia, and Rosine ??
Haubtmann. Married to Elsabe, née Wildschutz;
leaves behind 3 children: Joseph - Christian
Ludewig, and Nicolay Peter -. Age 39 y 6 m.
Kloster [monastery] churchyard.

Here's Sophus Emil Lauritz in the 1860 census - from the indexed censuses at http://ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Kongensgade 3, forhuus stuen, 1, FT-1860, B0289
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Carl Ludvig Sophus Hauptmann    38    Gift    graver, huusfader       Odense
Caroline Magdalene født Kyhl    38    Gift    hans kone       Svendborg
Ehlard Wilhelm Andreas Hauptmann    10    Ugift    hans søn       Odense
Sophus Emil Lauritz Hauptmann    8    Ugift    hans søn       ditto [Odense]
Joseph Alberth Steen Hauptmann    7    Ugift    hans søn       ditto [Odense]
Ludvig Julius Frederik Hauptmann    4    Ugift    hans søn, tvillinger       ditto [Odense]
Caroline Magdalene Sophie Hauptmann    4    Ugift    hans datter, tvillinger       ditto [Odense]
Carl Christian Alberth Hauptmann    2    Ugift    hans søn       ditto [Odense]

Sophus' father in the 1845 census:

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Mellemstræde, Nr. 126, 2220, FT-1845, B1959
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Christ. Hauptmann    48    Gift       Naalemager    Haderslev
Anna Nielsen    50    Gift       Hans Kone    Odense
Carl Hauptmann    23    Ugift       Graver    Odense
Christian Hauptmann    21    Ugift       Malersvend    Odense
Martin Aagaard    22    Ugift       Naalemagersvend    Odense
Niels Aagaard    14    Ugift       Naalemagerlærling    Odense
F. Wallmann    14    Ugift       Pleiebarn    Odense

He could be the son of Christian Ludewig mentioned in the 1802 death record.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Inger Toudal]

And indeed he is!

Amt: Odense, Herred: Odense, Sogn: Odense, Sct Knud
1817 - 1822, Opslag 20, No 164:

Born 8 Jun. 1822. Carl Ludvig Sophus.
Parents: Christian Ludvig Hauptmann
Naalemagersvend [journeyman needlemaker]
og Hustrue [wife] Ane Sophie Nielsen.

Sophus' birth is in Odense, Sct Knud 1847 - 1852, Opslag 51, No 46:

Born 23 May 1852. Sophus Emil Lauritz Hauptmann.
Parents: Graveur [engraver] Carl Ludvig Sophus Hauptmann
og Hustru Caroline Magdalene Kühl.

I first found the births in the Odense database http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/

A search for Efternavn: Hau_tman% gave this result:
http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/kilde/begivenhed?fornavn=&efternavn=hau_tman%25&page=1

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Anne-Lise Godfrey]

I want to thank everyone who responded to my question about Johan Joseph Hauptmann. I think  I see the "P" in Hauptmann seems to be a "B" - is that normal?  By the way, I absolutely love the name Elsabe, is that a common name in Denmark?  Is it a form of Elizabeth?  The reason I came up with 1802 being Johan's death year is simply that someone told me that.  I did not do the research on that, but now I know he did died then.  I didn't know he was a musician - I obviously did not inherit that gene from him!! Now I have to try and find out his mother's last name.  I knew about the Rosina (another name I like) but so far I've been unable to find a last name for her.

I'm glad I joined this forum because I have some other questions.  I've traced some other names of my ancestors - some are Helen Jessen Raben, Heronimus Bodich.  But now I have input all this great information you have given me into my famiy tree software.  Again, thank you ever so much!
Anne Godfrey

[Inge Nissen]

By the way, I absolutely love the name Elsabe, is that a common name in Denmark?  Is it a form of Elizabeth? 
I knew about the Rosina (another name I like) but so far I've been unable to find a last name for her.

Elsabe is not a common name in Denmark -  not today  - but in the southern part of Jylland (Jutland) it was quite common once - perhaps it is a short form for Elisabeth, german maybe?
Rosine is not a common name, I have only met it about 150 years ago in churchbooks from Fyn (Svendborg).

Inge

[Anne-Lise Godfrey]

Thanks, Inge for your info about Elsabe.  Now I have a general history question - did the borders between Denmark and Germany go back and forth a lot down through the years?  Anne

[Inger Toudal]

Hi Anne-Lise,

Until 1864, the Duchy of Schleswig (including Haderslev) was under Danish rule.

From https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark - History:

1863 Denmark goes to war against Prussia and Austria. In the Treaty of Prague (1866), Denmark cedes Schleswig-Holstein to Prussia (Germany).

1920 After a referendum, northern Schleswig is returned to Denmark.

You can read more here:

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark_Historical_Geography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Schleswig

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Schleswig-Holstein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleswig-Holstein_Question

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Brian Lauridsen]

Wolfersdorf is now called Volfartice.
A Joannes Josephus Hauptman was born there 27 July 1763, which fits with the death record.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20568-6631-95?cc=1804263&wc=MK9Y-DPJ:979674501,983124501,983232301,983235501

A little below the middle of the right column.
Unfortunately it is only an index, so the parents are not mentioned.

Brian

[Brian Lauridsen]

Somebody is already researching this family.
http://johnoglis.dk/genealogi/getperson.php?personID=I56117&tree=JM

Brian

[Inger Toudal]

Christian Ludvig Hauptmann with mother and siblings in the 1803 census:

Haderslev, Haderslev, Haderslev Købstad, Neu Hadersleben 4te Rotte, Bishofsstrasse No. 168, 69, FT-1803, C0487
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      
Elisa Hauptmann geb. Wildschütz    37    Enke    Hausmutter    Arm, erhält Unterstützung aus der Armenkasse    
Joh. Hauptmann    9    Ugift    Ihre Kinder       
Ludewig Hauptmann    5    Ugift    Ihre Kinder       
Peter Hauptmann    1    Ugift    Ihre Kinder

Show all fields:
Source:    FT-1803
Name:    Elisa Hauptmann geb. Wildschütz
Age:    37
Position in household:    Hausmutter   Marital status:    Enke
Occupation:    Arm, erhält Unterstützung aus der Armenkasse
Parish:    Haderslev Købstad   District:    Haderslev
County:    Haderslev   Place name:    Neu Hadersleben 4te Rotte
Household-/family no:    69   Title no/address:    Bishofsstrasse No. 168
Marriage no:    2  [Johann Joseph was her 2nd husband]

In 1834 and 1840 he is living with his family in Svendborg (the 3 sons were all born in Odense):

Svendborg, Sunds, Svendborg Købstad, , Gerritsgade, 29/3, FT-1834, B1053
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      
Christian Ludvig Hauptman    36    Gift       Naalemager    
Anne Sofie Nielsen    39    Gift       Kone    
Carl Ludvig Hauptman    12    Ugift       Søn    
Christian Julius Hauptman    10    Ugift       Søn    
Andreas Theodor Hauptman    8    Ugift       Søn    
Hans Rasmussen    28    Ugift       Naalemagersvend    
Rasmus Jespersen    21    Ugift       Naalemagersvend

Svendborg, Sunds, Svendborg Købstad, Gieritsgade, , 28, FT-1840, C5702
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      
Christian Hauptmann    43    Gift       Naalemager    
Anne Sophie Nielsen    46    Gift       hans Kone    
Carl Hauptmann    18    Ugift       deres Sønner    
Christian Hauptmann    16    Ugift       deres Sønner    
Magrethe Holm    8    Ugift       Pleiedatter    [foster daughter]
Hans Rasmussen    35    Ugift       Svend    
Hans Larsen    30    Ugift       Gartner, Logerende

He married Anne Sophie Nielsen 15 Apr. 1821 (Odense, Odense, Odense, Sct Knud 1817-1822, opslag 95, No 84). According to the church record, she's the daughter of afskediget Dragon* Christoffer Nielsen in Odense.
* former dragoon

These must be the parents of Anne Sophie:

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kiøbstad, Vognsbroe Gaden, 343, FT-1801, B9037
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:
Christopher Nielsen    39    Gift    huusbonde    dragon     
Bodel Marie    38    Gift    hans kone       
Rasmus Christophersen    13    Ugift    deres børn       
Niels    11    Ugift    deres børn       
Johan    9    Ugift    deres børn       
Anne Sophie    6    Ugift    deres børn       
Frantz    4    Ugift    deres børn       
Christian    1    Ugift    deres børn       
Cathrine Margrethe Wolf    56    Enke(mand)    logerende    ernærer sig ved haandarbeide

I first found the marriage here:
http://www.wadschier.dk/arkivalie/odense-praestearkiv-navneregister-til-viede-og-doede-1646-1891/1640/558/0.5

Best regards,
Inger T.