James Smith/Scmit/Smidt/Schmidt? Help please

[George Hawkins]

Last year I was searching for my 3x great grandfather, James Smith without much luck, and had a thread:
https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,57248.0.html

I want to look again freshly at this person, as I have a bit more information about him which may help trace him, though I have had absolutely no luck with census results.

James Smith was born in Denmark around 1833/4 (going by birth cert of daughter Caroline, he would be born in 1835 though.) On one document, he has signed his name as Jens Scmit. He was possibly born in Aalborg, as on the birth certificate of one of his children he wrote his birth place as 'Oldbold, Denmark'. On every other certificate I have seen, it just states Denmark as his place of birth, except for on a shipping record where Copenhagen is recorded. His father is named as John, a shoemaker, and his mother Caroline.

He seems to have travelled to Australia on the Oscar Vidal, which departed Hamburg in 1853 (The shipping list says he is from Copenhagen). He married Honora Burke in Australia in 1856. Their children were Christianna, Honora, Caroline, Jens, another Honora, Harriett and Charlotte. After Honora died, he married my 3x great grandmother, Maud Shipway, who was considerably younger than him, in 1889. Their children were James, Eva, another James, Maud, Christian and Norman.

I have searched and searched the census with every variation I can think of for his surname and a mother with the name of Caroline, but with no luck and am hoping fresh eyes may find a clue.
Today I found this one in 1850, Aalborg: Jens Smidt in Aalborg, aged 18, a shoemaker apprentice, born in Aalborg, living in the household of Jacob and Karen Lassen. I have no idea if this is mine or not, but the age and name seem right. Trouble is, I can not find him or his birth family in any other census, either before or after this date (always look after as I know my one to be in Australia in 1856, so anyone with a similar name found after this date can not be relevant.)

Any help or suggestions greatly welcomed.

[Anne Mortensen]

Your Jens ?

aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Adelgade, 5 Rode, , 416 (391), FT-1850, C9967
________________________________________
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Jacob Lassen   42    Gift      skomager   Klitgaard Aalborg Amt
Karen Møller   36    Gift      hans kone   Nibe Aalborg Amt
Kirstine   9    Ugift      hans børn   Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Jacobine   7    Ugift      hans børn   Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Mariane   5    Ugift      hans børn   Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Lauritz   2    Ugift      hans børn   Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Jens Christensen   24    Ugift      skomagersvend   Vaarsø
Jens Smidt   18    Ugift      lærling   Aalborg Aalborg Amt
-----------------------------------


Ålborg
Ålborg Budolfi  1825-1865
Konf.
Opslag 75
Nr. 75
1846
Jens Jørgen Schmidt
Skom. Johan Kristian
Schmidt og H. Kirstine Steenberg
f. 3.10.1831
--------------------------------------


Ålborg
Ålborg Budolfi  1829-1847
Født
Opslag 17
1831
Nr. 51
Jens Jørgen Schmidt
Skomagermester Johan Chri-
stian Schmidt og Hustru
Kirstine Steenberg
Adress ?

_______________________________________

aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Vesteraa Gade, No 135, 135 F2, FT-1840, C5067

Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Søren Christian Schmidt   38    Gift      Skomagermæster   
Chirstine Steenberg   41    Gift      hans Kone   
Birthe Petrea Schmidt   14    Ugift      deres Børn   
Niels Steenberg [Schmidt]   11    Ugift      deres Børn   
Jens Jørgen Schmidt   8    Ugift      deres Børn   
Sophie Schmidt   5    Ugift      deres Børn   
Maren Catrine [Schmidt]   3    Ugift      deres Børn   

[Anne Mortensen]

 aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Urbans-Gade, Søndre Side, No. 106 Lit. A, 2den familie, 233, FT-1834, B6292
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:      Stilling i husstanden:      Erhverv:      Fødested:

Andreas Jensen   35    Gift      Arbeidsmand   
Maren Jensdatter   26    Gift      Hans kone   
Johann Christian Schmidt   32    Gift      Skoemager   
Christine Steenberg   34    Gift      Hans kone   
Birte Petrine Schmidt   7    Ugift      Deres børn   
Niels Steenberg Schmidt   5    Ugift      Deres børn   
Jens Jørgen Schmidt   2    Ugift      Deres børn   

[George Hawkins]

Thanks Anne,
That certainly appears to be the one I found. I still can not say for sure it is him though, as the mother's name here is not Caroline. I have found a few 'john' Schmidts with a Caroline for a wife, but none of them with a son name Jens, nor shoe makers! It is very frustrating.
Is this particular Jens Schmidt around on the censuses after 1853? If not, then he would be a strong possibility at any rate.

[Helmer Christiansen]

I'm afraid you find him married in the 1860 census:

aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Store Nye Gade, 434. ...??huset. c, 1170-F3, FT-1860, D5559 Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Jens Jørgen Schmidt   28    Gift   skomagersvend. huusfader      Aalborg
Caroline Gudiksen   27    Gift   hans kone      Kollerup, Thisted Amt
Cathrine Schmidt   4    -   deres datter      Aalborg

[George Hawkins]

Ironically to a Caroline! Oh well, another one to cross off the list. I am starting to wonder if he can ever be found!

[Hanne Poulsen]

It is not an easy task.

You might look for Jens (and his father) in the military records, lægdsrulle, available on the internet, e.g. starting out in Aalborg and Copenhagen.

You might also take a photo of the reference to Oldbold, and send it to the forum providing transciption assistance. To me, the link between "Oldbold" and the city Aalborg is not the first thing that comes to mind. I have tried to think of other options, however it may be useful to have the spelling confirmed, and then start thinking of possible locations.

Did he travel alone when going to Australia? It might be useful to check the other Danes on the list of passengers. He may have left with brothers, cousins or with friends from his home town or from a town where he worked.

Kind regards
Hanne

[George Hawkins]

Thanks for the ideas. I will look into it. I believe an aunt has the birth certificate for one of his children which has father, i.e., Jens' place of birth as Oldbold, but that will have been written in New Zealand, by the person who compiled the register, based on what he was told. What are some other places that sound a bit like that? I have been trying to go through Church books, but it will take a long time!

[Hanne Poulsen]

Getting back to Oldbold. You are right, quite a bit of information may have been lost, or maybe rather quite a bit of misinformation piling up - during the recording of his origin. We would not know which Danish dialect, Jens spoke, and we do not know if he might have anglified the name of his origin. Jens may have referred to any of these entities: amt, herred, sogn, by. Worst case: could he have said: old bold Denmark - hopefully not.
What makes me think that Aalborg may not be correct, is the last part "bold". It does not match the Danish pronaunciation of the city of Aalborg, and the English version of "borg" might be castle or tower. I have searched Trap Danmark for names that may fit, however until now without any luck.
You might ask for more opinions/ideas on the forum. It would certainly be a major break through having the geografic location clarified.

One more thing: as Jens translated his first name, he may also have translated his sir name. The Danish version of Smith is Smed (different ways of spelling are seen).

You mentioned that the ship record stated the last place of registering for Jens as Copenhagen. If this is the case, Jens may be found in military records of Copenhagen, even if Copenhagen is not he place Jens was born.

Kind regards
Hanne

[George Hawkins]

That was funny to think he may have said "old, bold Denmark!" A translated version of the place name is interesting though. Is there a Gammelfed?

The only time I have seen his name spelt orher than Smith was on his first wedding certificate where he signs his name as Jens Scmit, but I have not been able to find anyone with this name in a census.

[George Hawkins]

Here is the birth certificate of Jens' son Christian, where his (Jens') place of birth is recorded as Oldbold, Denmark. On his naturalisation papers (which have apparently since been lost) his birth place is unhelpfully recorded as Jutland, Denmark.



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[George Hawkins]

Close-up of 'Oldbold'

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[George Hawkins]

New Zealand naturalisation:

James SCMIT
34 years - born about 1835
Birthplace:   Jutland
Former Nationality:  Danish
Occupation :  Miner
Resident at:  Dunedin
Naturalisation Date:   18 March 1869
Cert. Register :  1869/622
Cert. No.  1
Register page:    116

[Hanne Poulsen]

Knowing that he was from Jutland, is helpful.
You are right the text seems to read "Oldbold". Translation: first part Old= Gammel (very common), last part (nothing that comes to mind as last part of a location in Denmark/Jutland).

If indeed Oldbold means Ålborg, then you may find this link useful http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirker_i_Aalborg_Amt

Ålborg may mean somewhere in Ålborg amt or in the city of Ålborg.

Kind regards
Hanne

[George Hawkins]

Thanks Hanne. It looks like I have a lot of Church books to go through!