Help with finding parents of Niels Carl Buch/Buck, born 1800/1801 in København

Startet af Simon Buch, 16 Jul 2014 - 02:30

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Simon Buch

Hello!

This man is my great-great-great grandfather and the only information i can find about him is from two censuses from 1845/50 when he lived in two poorhouses in Nykøbing Falster, Falster Sønder, Maribo.

I am currently researching the origins of my surname "Buch" and this is where the trail is over.
I have tried looking in church books from the era he was born, but the content is impossible for me to read.

Is there any chance you can help me?

Best regards.

Ralph Rasmussen

Some bits about Niels:

Niels Carl Buck was married to the widow Nielsmine Hansen, née Jensen on april 19, 1837.  The record is plainer in the 1830-1840 contra record book posted by Family Search, https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33493-10783-36?cc=2078555&wc=M5K4-HZC:357518001,357811301,357811302,357843301

But niether that nor the Arkivalier Online book 1830-1838, opslag (image, fiche) 36 gives a birth or baptism date or parish.

Also elusive is an indexed birth record with Family Search, https://familysearch.org/search


Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Anne Mortensen

#2
maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster Købstad, Store Kirkestræde, Langgades Rude, No. 28, 75, FT-1840, C8924
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:

Niels Christian Buch   29   Gift      Slagter
Nielsmine Jensen   39   Gift      hans Kone
Frederike Ingeborg Hansen   8   Ugift      Konens Børn af 1. Egteskab
Lene Nielsine Hansen   6   Ugift      Konens Børn af 1. Egteskab
Andreas Anton Buch   2   Ugift      begges Søn
Jens Christian Jensen   12   Ugift      Pleiesøn
Anne Ørbek   24   Ugift      Tjenestepige
----------------------------------

maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster Købstad, Østergades Rode, Østergade, 10 og 11, FT-1845, B8009

Niels Carl Buck   45   Gift      fattiglemmer   Kiøbenhavn
Nielsmine Jensen   40   Gift      hans kone, fattiglemmer   Nykiøbing
Frederikke Ingeborg Hansen   12   Ugift      deres børn, fattiglemmer   do [Nykiøbing]
Andreas Anthon Buck   6   Ugift      deres børn, fattiglemmer   do [Nykiøbing]
-------------------------------------

Vielse
AO:

Maribo
Nykøbing 1830-1838
opslag 36
19.4.1837
--------------------------------------

And here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33493-10562-24?cc=2078555&wc=M5K4-HZC:357518001,357811301,357811302,357843301
---------------------------------------


Venlig hilsen
Anne Mortensen - 2770

Anne Mortensen

Nielsmine 1. marriage:

maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster Købstad, Store Kirkestræde, -, 65 28, FT-1834, C7420
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:

Andreas Hansen    33    Gift       Slagter    
Nielsmine Jensen    33    Gift       hans Kone    
Frederikke Ingeborg Hansen    2    Ugift       deres Datter    
Ingeborg Svane    69    Gift       med Slagter Niels Hansen, Huusfaderens Moder forsørges af ham    
Hans Ludvig Pedersen    19    Ugift       Læredreng    
Abelone Christine Henningsen    21    Ugift       Tjenestepige    
Niels Peter Christian Hansen    22    Ugift       Matros Logerende
Venlig hilsen
Anne Mortensen - 2770

Inger Toudal

#4
Hi Simon,

I found him in the 1840 census, too:

Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster Købstad, Store Kirkestræde, Langgades Rude, No. 28, 75, FT-1840, C8924
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:       
Niels Christian Buch    29    Gift       Slagter [butcher]   
Nielsmine Jensen    39    Gift       hans Kone    
Frederike Ingeborg Hansen    8    Ugift       Konens Børn af 1. Egteskab    
Lene Nielsine Hansen    6    Ugift       Konens Børn af 1. Egteskab    
Andreas Anton Buch    2    Ugift       begges Søn    
Jens Christian Jensen    12    Ugift       Pleiesøn
Anne Ørbek    24    Ugift       Tjenestepige    

Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster Købstad, Østergades Rode, Østergade, 10 og 11, FT-1845, B8009
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:       Birth place:
- - - - -
Niels Carl Buck    45    Gift       fattiglemmer    Kiøbenhavn
Nielsmine Jensen    40    Gift       hans kone, fattiglemmer    Nykiøbing
Frederikke Ingeborg Hansen    12    Ugift       deres børn, fattiglemmer    do [Nykiøbing]
Andreas Anthon Buck    6    Ugift       deres børn, fattiglemmer    do [Nykiøbing]
- - - - -

Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Nykøbing Falster, Gamle Kirkegaard, No. 13 a, 26, FT-1850, C9700
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:       Birth place:
Niels Carl Buck    49    Gift       Arbeidsmand, Fattiglem    Kjøbenhavn
Mine Buck    48    Gift       hans Kone, Fattiglem    Maribo
Andreas Buck    10    Ugift       deres Barn, Fattiglem    Nykjøbing

His wife's maiden name was Jensdatter (see AO church book).

The marriage is recorded twice in the contra book:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33493-10562-24?cc=2078555&wc=M5K4-HZC:357518001,357811301,357811302,357843301 - No 2.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33493-10731-47?cc=2078555&wc=M5K4-HZC:357518001,357811301,357811302,357843301 - No 4.

At the marriage in 1837, his age is recorded as 29 y - and in the 1840 census the same age !!
In 1845 and 1850, he's recorded as 7-10 years older ??

The 1840 census is correctly transcribed: http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?bsid=5673#5673,131593 - bottom of page

Best regards,
Inger Toudal
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Anne Mortensen

His son:

kbhv, København (Staden), Jægergade, Jægergade 7, Kirkegaardsrode nr 750, 77, FT-1880, D4169
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested
Andreas Anton Buck    41 år    Gift    Husfader    Cigarmager    Nykjøbing F
Juliane Marie Buck    52 år    Gift    Hustru       Frederiksund
Ferdinand Viggo Andreas Buck    17 år    Ugift    Søn    Fabriksarbeider    Kjøbenhavn
Valdemar Julius Buck    14 år    Ugift    Søn       Kjøbenhavn
Bertine Vilhelmine Juliane Buck    14 år    Ugift    Datter       Kjøbenhavn
Christine Marie Buck    11 år    Ugift    Datter       Kjøbenhavn
Venlig hilsen
Anne Mortensen - 2770

Anne Mortensen

Maybe the father ?


kbhv, København (Staden), Snarens Kvarter, Snarens Kvarter, Matr. 25, 94, FT-1801, A5027
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:

Iver Sørensen    50    Gift    Huusbond    Fhv.Staldkarl    
Kirstine Buch    38    Gift    hans Kone       
Ane Cathrine [Sørensen]    9    Ugift    deres Datter       
Niels Christian Buch    35    Ugift    konens Broder    Skræddersv.
Venlig hilsen
Anne Mortensen - 2770

Ralph Rasmussen

The Family Search (FS) image of the 1837 marrriage is #24.

In passing, it seems that Carl as a given name was unusual at that time in Denmark, suggesting a parent or grandparent perhaps from a German speaking region.

Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Anne Mortensen

The Family Search (FS) image of the 1837 marrriage is #24.

Church book ?

Link ?
Venlig hilsen
Anne Mortensen - 2770


Inger Toudal


Maybe this couple is worth a further investigation:

København, København (Staden), Købmager Kvarter, Købmager Kvarter, Matr. 202, 930, FT-1801, A5032
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:
Anthon Buch    28    Gift    Huusbond    Glassliber    
Ane Kirstine Buch    35    Gift    Kone

- Andreas Anthon could have been named after his mother's late husband and his paternal grandfather.

Best regards,
Inger T.
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Simon Buch

Hello Again!

Thank you so much Ralph, Anne and Inger for taking time and trouble helping me with this. You are all wonderful!

There is alot of things that has made med confused, though.

Like the age differences in all the cesuses and church books. According to the new ones you have posted, he would have been born in either 1808 or 1811. Could he have been a dyscalculic or maybe a swindler?

And why is he's middlename Christian in the 1840 census?

Is it possible to find him in the police record history or anything?

Best regards.
Simon




John Wrenholt

According to http://bransholm.homepage.dk/Filer/BUCHPUSLESPIL.pdf:

Niels Carl Anthonsen Buch was born 9 March, 1808 and died 19 October, 1863.  I can verify his death (see the famiysearch file shown below) but I've been unable to find his birth record.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33493-10701-66?cc=2078555&wc=M5K4-W3B:357518001,357811301,357811302,357844601

Ralph Rasmussen

In the Buch file just named, Niels Carl A. Buch and his son are named on page 153.

Niels's father is listed on an immediate previous page as Anthon Christian Buch, and his father in turn on page 150 as Christian Sørensen Buch, born about 1726.  The latter's connection to the clerical Buch families on the previous pages is noted as uncertain in the note on page 145.

Family Search is listed as one of the sources of information on Niels Carl, but the 1808 birth date doesn't seem to come up on the current version of the search results there.

Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Inger Toudal

Hi Simon,

Middle name Christian in the 1840 census must be a mistake. You find Niels Carl's birth record in:

Vor Frue, Sokkelund, København 1807-1813, Opslag 7, No 4 from the bottom on the right hand page.
Vor Frue, Sokkelund, København 1805-1813, Opslag 80, left hand page.

Maij 1808
D: 6
Dr 59
Anthon Christian Buch Slagter i St Pederstr 118
og H: Caroline Frideriche Hoff en S. k. Niels Carl
fød den 9 Martii: Fadd: Forældrene og Gjor-
demoder Madm Faxøe.

6 May 1808
Boy 59
ACB butcher in Sankt Pederstræde 118
and wife CFH a son called Niels Carl
born 9 March. Witnesses: the parents
and midwife Faxøe.

The father in the 1801 census:

København, København (Staden), Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, Matr. 401, 2727, FT-1801, A5029
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:
Christian Sørensen Buck    72    Gift    Huusbond    Slagtermester    
Maren Hansdatter    60    Gift    hans Kone       
Anton Christian Buck    28    Ugift    hans Søn    Slagtermester    
Else Marie Buck    20    Ugift    hans Datter       
Maren Elisabeth Johansdatter    43    Ugift    Tjenestepige       
Margrethe Elisabeth Eberhardt    60    Enke    Huusboninde    Søn F.B.E.    
Frederik Burchardt Eberhardt    27    Ugift    hendes Søn    Tøjmagersv.

This could be the mother:

København, København (Staden), Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, , Borgergade 195, 1100, FT-1787, C1746
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:
Karen Jens Datter Hoffs Enke    47    Enke    Huus Moder    Holder Spise Qvarteer    
Mette Marie Hoff    11    Ugift    Hendes Datter       
Caroline Frideriche Hoff    10    Ugift    Hendes Datter       
Anne Henriette Hoff    7    Ugift    Hendes Datter       
Erenst Carl Friderich Hoff    5    Ugift    Hendes Søn       
Kirsten Michels Datter    30    Ugift    Tieneste Folk       
Boel Kirstine Ols Datter    32    Ugift    Tieneste Folk       
Mette Maria Niels Datter    22    Ugift    Tieneste Folk       
Lovise Suslag    37    Ugift    Tieneste Folk

Best regards,
Inger T.
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Simon Buch

Thank you all for the help!

Ralph: Does that mean it's more or less impossible to find the parents and further generations of Christian Sørensen Buch?

Best regards.
Simon.

Inger Toudal


You have to work your way back in time to find Christian Sørensen Buch's marriages. In 1787 he's in his 2nd marriage:

København, København (Staden), Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter, , Klerkegade 401, 2845, FT-1787, C1746
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Position in household:       Occupation:       
Christian Sørensen Buch    61    Gift    Hosbonde    Slagter Mester    
Maren Hans Datter    48    Gift    hans Kone       
Antoni Christian Buch    11    Ugift    deres Barn       
Maria Elisabeth Buch    8    Ugift    deres Barn       
Else Maria Buch    6    Ugift    deres Barn       
Karen Ols Datter    27    Ugift    Tieneste Pige

All fields:
Source:    FT-1787
Name:    Christian Sørensen Buch   Sex:    M
Age:    61
Position in household:    Hosbonde   Marital status:    Gift
Occupation:    Slagter Mester
Parish:    Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter   District:    København (Staden)
County:    København
Household-/family no:    2845   Title no/address:    Klerkegade 401
Marriage no:    2

According to http://ddd.dda.dk/soeg_oeders.asp he was in his 2nd marriage already in 1771:

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Christian Bock   Mandens erhverv:    Borremand og Sclagter
Mandens alder:    44   Mandens civilstand:    Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:    2   Mand død (ja/nej):    Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej):    Nej   Hustrus alder:    31
Hustrus civilstand:    Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Sogn:    Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter   Herred:    København (Staden)
Amt:    København   Stednavn:    302a

As a master butcher he must have had a trade licence. In the trade licence protocols at the Copenhagen City Archives you should be able to find information about his place of birth:

http://www.kbharkiv.dk/sog-i-arkivet/guider/guide-for-slaegtsforskere

http://www.kbharkiv.dk/wiki/Borgerskab_og_n%C3%A6ring_1685-1974

Best regards,
Inger T.
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Ralph Rasmussen

My impression is, that in this forum the impossible sometimes just takes longer.

As more records are examined or re-examined it may be that the presumed Søren Buch will be found, for example as a butcher (slagter) or apprentice.  If he wasn't a butcher, the question might be what social situation allowed him to place his son as an apprentice in that field.

Christian Sørensen Buch's baptism might figure to be at Trinitatis, and apparently isn't.  As Inger noted, that opens up for me the possibility that he applied to be allowed to ply a trade in København after arriving from elsewhere, a 'borgerskab'.
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø