Help to read a military record

Startet af Peter Jones, 21 Okt 2014 - 12:52

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Peter Jones

Hi, This is the web address:
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17363,759868
It is for Præstø, Everdrup (75) Tilgangsliste in 1817, image 88,
number 334 Johan Frederik

Can someone please read the information in this record.  From other information, it seems he might have been born in Copenhagen, but adopted.
I can see that his height is 65 1/4 inches, and age is either 26 or 28.

What happened in 1819?  In April 1811?
Under Fodested, is that an abbreviation for Kjiobenhavn?
etcetra

Many Thanks for help.
Peter Jones

John Damm Sørensen

#1
Hi Peter,


As I read it Johan Frederik is a foster child born in Copenhagen.
It seems like his foster father is Anders Mortensen in Vester Egede, though I cannot find such person there.
Anyway Johan Frederik is here i Vester Egede:
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17358,758619

You might trace him further back in Vester Egede (lægd 47).


Added:
Here is Johan Frederik in Vester Egede and his foster father is Jacob Smed i Eskildstrup.
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17343,755617


Best
John

Ole Westermann

Peter,

you took me on a longer journey:

       Skuffebarn (foundling)
334 Johan Frederik
(born in) Kiøbenh(avn)
Age: 26
Height: 65 1/4 inches
Living in: Lundehuus
Pleies(øn) (foster-son): And. Mortens(en) i V.Egede
                                1 Apr 1811   Sold. Kr. R. (soldier in Kronens Regiment)
Vedtegninger: fr(a) (from) 47-40
Overcpl (overkomplet=in excess) 1819 NLR (Norske Liv Regiment) 4/4 R/18

Skuffebarn (directly translated: drawer child); outside Fødselsstiftelsen/Frederiks Hospital in København there was
in the wall a drawer/box, where a mother anonymously could put her child, if she did not want to keep it, whatever
the reason was. The were called drawer child or box child.
So nobody knew later, who the parents were !

47-40 tell us, that he came from lægd 47 with the nr 40. So I looked in Hovedrulle 1816 anf found him at:
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17358,758619
old nr 49  new nr 40 Skuffeb. Johan Frederik born in Kiøbenhavn, age 26, height 65 1/4, residence Vester Egede
as foster-son at Anders Mortensen, and again the same note: 1.April Soldier in Kronens Regiment

Then to Hovedrulle 1813 and lægd 47 at:
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17343,755618
old nr 56 new nr 49 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, age 23, height 65 1/4, Soldier 1 April 1811 Kronens Regiment,
                           at Anders Mortensen, and then the nr 62/14  ??

Hovedrulle 1810 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17332,753269
old nr 56 new nr 44 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, age 23, height 61, residence: the Regiment, Soldier 1807 in
      NLR (Norwegian Lifeguard Regiment), his foster-father Jacob Smed in Eskildstrup, and the note to the left:
      Var Doublet med (was substitute for) Trygevælde 35-520 (a man from Tryggevælde, who payed him to
      take his place)

Hovedrulle 1806 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17321,750328
old nr 68 new nr 56   (the same as above)

Hovedrulle 1804 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17311,747276
old nr 88 new nr 68 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, age 17, height 61, residence: Rønnede, foster-father Jacob Smed
      in Eskildstrup, Soldier 107 in NLR, was 'Doublet' (as above) (see the roll 1796)

Hovedrulle 1819 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17368,761073
old nr 30 new nr 17, Skuffeb. Johan Frederik, age 32, heigt 61, Fosterfather Jacob Smed, udtjent Infant. (finished
      the Infantery) 1816 S.Kr.R. (uncertain regiment); ugift (unmarried)
In 1822 at http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17423,778458 nr 17-12
In 1825 at http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17424,778851 nr 12-10; in 1824 to the Reserve; unmarried

Until now he has been without a surname (like the Royal Family!)
Does he end as Johan Frederiksen in Everdrup in 1845 ?

mvh Ole

Bjørn Marcher

Hello all,

nice work by Ole!  Here is probably the person in the 1801 census


Præstø, Tybjerg, Vester Egede (parish), Rønnede By, , 4, FT-1801, B8983
Johan Henrichsen 30 Gift Husbonde Bonde og gårdbeboer 
Anne Jacobsdatter 28 Gift Hans kone   
Johan Friderich 15 Ugift Plejebarn fra opfostringshuset   
Christian 4 Ugift Plejebarn fra opfostringshuset   
Hans Nielsen 23 Ugift Tjenestekarl Landsoldat 
Dorthe Larsdatter 17 Ugift Tjenestepige


and for the 1787 census, this is probably the right family

Præstø, Fakse, Kongsted, Eskilstrup Bye, , , FT-1787, C4348
Jakob Jensen 48 Gift Mand Gaardmand og Grovsmed 
Kirsten Mortensdatter 45 Gift Hustrue   
Anne Magrete Jakobsdatter 18 Ugift Børn   
Jens Jakobsen 14 Ugift Børn   
Jens Olsen 22 Ugift Tienestekarl   
Karen 8 Ugift Pleiebørn fra Opfostringshuset   
Johan Friderik 1 Ugift Pleiebørn fra Opfostringshuset

and here as well, he is mentioned as a foster child.

best regards
Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark

Peter Jones

Many thanks to John, Ole and Bjørn for all your efforts to help me.  That is a lot of work.

It raised a few red flags though when a recrd mentioned he was unmarried in 1819.  I knew he was married in Vester Eged in 1816 to a Barabara Cathrine larsdatter variously known as Catrine, Trine or Barbara.  I also know he died in 1822 in Everdrup, and that their children were born in Everdrup.

Then I remembered when I first researched him, that there were 2 of them (2 Johan Frederiksen's) who married close together in Vester Egede.  I'll attach a pic showing them both.

So Ole is coreect back until 1813, except the references should be 58/49, not 56/49.
Then
Hovedrulle 1810 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17332,753270
old nr 70 new nr 58 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, at Anders Mortensen

Hovedrulle 1806 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17321,750329
old nr 83 new nr 70 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, age 17, height 62 1/4, 63 3/4 in 1810,at Anders Mortensen

Hovedrulle 1804 lægd 47 at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17311,747276
old nr 106 new nr 83 Skuffebarn Johan Frederik, age 14, at Anders Mortensen

Hovedrulle 1819 lægd 75 (Everdrup) at
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481031#17369,761455
mentions he died in 1822 and was married, foster son of Anders Mortensen

So mine was a little younger and a bit taller than the other Johan Frederiksen.
On some marriage records he was called Johan Rebslager (Ropemaker).

The reference provided helped me to easily check them, and usually the correct one was only a page away.   :)

I really appreciated the explanation of Skuffebarn  too - really interesting, and I know I won't be able to trace him back any further.   :(

Many Thanks again for all your help. :) :)
Peter Jones

Peter Jones

I'll try and post the image again, I have twice been rejected.


[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

Ole Westermann

Peter,

The pic is not the marriage record, but the betrothal records, but you probably know that.

In fact I DID wonder about the difference in height, but could not imagine that there were 2 'skuffebørn' with the
same name in the same 'lægd' with nearly same age.
But I can now see, that I made a mistake.

According to 1804-06-10 records, the betrothal and death records Johan Frederik/Friderich was born ca 1789-90.

I have discovered that when the military records uses the term 'skuffebarn' we shall not take it literally. I think that
most of them in fact were born anonymously at Den Kgl. Fødselsstiftelse in København.

I have looked closer at Den Kgl. Fødselsstiftelse and its church records from that time.
In fact it is more likely, that JF was born at the hospital by his mother, ex. in 1790 ca 830 children were born there,
and during 1790 there were 10 boys baptized with the name Johan Friderich. The child got a number, and so did the
mother. The State Archive (Rigsarkivet) has ex. protocols of the delivering mothers 1787-1826 and main protocols
of the children born at the hospital 1774-1856. No other authorities etc had access to these data. They were secrete.

I would believe, that these protocols contain the name of the mother and her number refering to the baptism records.
Whether they contain informations about where the children were sent to grow up with foster-parents, I don´t know.

mvh Ole

Bjørn Marcher

Peter (and Ole),


Please remember we found Johan Frederik in the 1787 census, so his is probably born in 1786....

It looks like Johan Frederik was almost a default name for "skuffebørn" at that time.... quite of them. You can see one example here, but only one of several possibilities:

http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16415203#9,4140 

This is hovedprotokollen, but in the early years unfortunately it did not show more info on the parents.

It changed with Udsætterprotokollerne from 1804, which I have used for a few persons.... but I don't know if you can find any similar info earlier...

best regards

Bjørn
Bjørn Marcher
2670 Greve
www.bearfields.dk
Medlem af DIS-Danmark

Peter Jones

Hi Bjorn,
Many thanks for your help and suggestions. :)

My problem is how can I be sure that the 1788 census Johan Friderik is the correct one, given that there were 2 of them in Vester Egede at least back to 1804?  ??? The age of the 1787 one is more consistent with the other slightly older and shorter Johan Frederik.
Mine certainly was the foster child of Anders Mortensen from 1804 onwards.  I need to see if I can trace back when Anders Mortensen arrived in Vester Egede, and where he came from etc.  I haven't looked at that yet.

About the frequency of the name - Was Frederik the name of the hospital/ Opostringshuus  or something?  And so that surname was used as a default?

Regards,
Peter Jones