Looking for the mother's name

[Paul Olesen]

Please type out the entry for the birth of Karen Pedersdatter. It is the first entry in the right column. I am trying to find the name of the mother.

"Danmark, Kirkebøger, 1484-1941," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14571-71?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501 : accessed 24 Oct 2014), Præstø > Hammer > Hammer > 2 (1756-1811) Fødte, Konfirmerede, Trolovelse, Viede, Døde, Absolverede, Vaccinerede > image 44 of 206.

Thank You
Paul Olesen

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Paul

The morthers name is not mentionend is this record
in 1787 it seems like Peder Jensen is married to a new wife. The Youngest child is 4 years of the 1, Marriage - Named Hans https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14467-80?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501
therefor I would search af his first wife as dead between 1783 and 1787 - if the could be given there.

Maybe the probate ca be found in Engelsholm gods

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Paul,

I have seen child of the first marriage used when there was only one marriage in other census records.  Here is the family in the 1787 census
All persons in the household

Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Faarup Bye, , FT-1787, C6469
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Position in household:       Occupation:       Birth place:
Hans Larsen    28    Gift    Hosbonde    Gaardmand, Bonde    
Dorthe Jensdatter    30    Gift    Madmoder       
Anna Hansdatter    5    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Ellen Hansdatter    3    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Maren Larsdatter    70    Enke    Koenens Moder    Ophold hos Datteren    
Jens Madsen    22    Ugift    Tienestefolk       
Ana Pedersdatter    22    Ugift    Tienestefolk       
Jens Pedersen    16    Ugift    Tienestefolk       
Lars Hansen    41    Gift    Mand    Bonde, Skræder    
Lucia Jensdatter    64    Gift    Koene       
Hans Jensen    27    Gift    Hosbonde    Gaardmand, Bonde    
Maren Jørgensdatter    25    Gift    Madmoder       
Ana Hansdatter    16    Ugift    Tienestefolk       
Niels Pedersen    14    Ugift    Tienestefolk       
Peder Jensen    60    Gift    Hosbonde    Gaardmand, Bonde    
Maren Hansdatter    34    Gift    Madmoder       
Karen Pedersdatter    13    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Anna Pedersdatter    11    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Kirsten Pedersdatter    8    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Hans Pedersen    4    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Peder Hansen    30    Ugift    Koenens Broder

Peder Jensen married Maren Hansdatter 21 Sunday after Trinity Sunday 1772, opslag 160, Hammer, Hammer, Præstø.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Paul Olesen]

The marriage to Maren Hansdatter may be the right marriage but I also found a marriage for a Peder Jensen to Karen Nielsdatter in 1773.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-13870-77?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Left column -  last entry

The 1787 census says that Peder Jensen is in his 2nd marriage. Would the children still be listed as from the 1st marriage if Maren Hansdatter were the mother?

I live in Minnesota, USA and do not speak Danish and only read a very little Danish. If it were not for online dictionaries and translations I would be completely lost.  I have a question about, "Maybe the probate ca be found in Engelsholm gods." How do you find out the correct probate to look for?

Tak for alle jeres hjælp

Paul

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Paul,

I am from North Carolina and also don't know Danish.  I read the groom in the 1773 marriage record as Heming Pedersen and not Peder Jensen.  I have looked through the death records and marriage records from 1784-1787 and do not find any related to either Peder Jensen or Maren Hansdatter.

Paul

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Paul and Paul

I tried ti combine the informations:

Husstand: Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, 1787, , Hammer Sogn, Faarup Bye
Kildenavn, Køn, Alder, Civilstand, Nr. ægteskab, Stilling i husstanden, Kildeerhverv
Peder Jensen, M, 60, Gift, 2, Hosbonde, Gaardmand, Bonde
Maren Hansdatter, K, 34, Gift, 1, Madmoder,
Karen Pedersdatter, K, 13, Ugift, Børn af 1ste Ægteskab, - children of first marriage     
Anna Pedersdatter, K, 11, Ugift, Børn af 1ste Ægteskab,
Kirsten Pedersdatter, K, 8, Ugift, Børn af 1ste Ægteskab,
Hans Pedersen, M, 4, Ugift, Børn af 1ste Ægteskab,
Peder Hansen, M, 30, Ugift, Koenens Broder, – the wifes brother


d. 3 Jan 1772 blev trolovet Enkemanden Peder Jensen
i Loe og Pigen Maren Hansdatter af Loe, saa ??
vi underskrevne som deres forlovere, at intet kand find hindre dette
deres første Ægteskabsbaand. Datum ut supra
Cop. Dom 2ma p. Trin 1772
HSL Hans Larsen i Loe --- PL Peder Larsen i Loe

d. 2 januarii 1772 was enganged Widower Peder Jensen
in Loe (Lov) and Girl Maren Hansdatter af Loe (Lov) then ??
we sign as ther vitness that norting cam stop this
Their first marriagewow?? Datum ut supra
Married Dom 2ma p. Trin 1772
HSL Hans Larsen i Loe --- PL Peder Larsen i Loe

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14571-71?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501
1 Ondsag i Faste Peder Jensen i Faarup
en datter til daab kaldet
Caren
Baaret af Madme Nefhus??
Tøne Andersen, Hans Bendsens stifsøn (Stepson) Peder, Jens
Jensens og Søren Hansens Hustrue alle i Faarup

Hans Bendsens stifsøn (Stepson) Peder
Coul be the one mentionend i 1787 as wifes brother

Arkivalieronline – new  - 1756-1815 – opslag 132 left page no. 6
1771 – dom 25 P. trin Peder Jensens Kone I Loe 47 aar gl [Peder Jensens wife in Loe (Lov)) 47 years old.

I Think it's a misunderstandig abt the children af first marriage – but i am not sure

Peder Jensen is very common I Denmark – so be carefull.

[Paul Olesen]

I also looked for marriages and deaths and didn't find any. The census does list him as having a 2nd marriage, if I am reading it correctly.

1787 Danish Census (Peder Jensen) - Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Faarup Bye,  FT-1787, C6469, Record 483

If he married Maren Hansdatter in 1772, then the children would have to be hers. She would be my 4th great grandmother. Kirsten Pedersdatter is my 3rd great grandmother.

Thank you again for your help.
Paul Olesen

[Inger Toudal]

Widower Peder Jensen in Loe married the maid Maren Hansdatter of Loe 21st Sunday after Trinity 1772:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14291-87?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

In 1771 there are two married men called Peder Jensen in Hammer parish:

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Peder Jensen   Mandens erhverv:    gaaer i dagleje
Mandens alder:    41   Mandens civilstand:    Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:    1   Mand død (ja/nej):    Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej):    Nej   Hustrus alder:    28
Hustrus civilstand:    Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Sogn:    Hammer   Herred:    Hammer
Amt:    Præstø   Stednavn:    Faarup

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Peder Jensen   Mandens erhverv:    gaaer i dagleje, hun væver
Mandens alder:    43   Mandens civilstand:    Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:    1   Mand død (ja/nej):    Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej):    Nej   Hustrus alder:    40
Hustrus civilstand:    Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Sogn:    Hammer   Herred:    Hammer
Amt:    Præstø   Stednavn:    Loe Bye

Found at http://ddd.dda.dk/soeg_oeders.asp

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Paul,

I had a thought.  Since Peter Jensen was 60 years old in the 1787 census and was married twice, and Maren Hansdatter was only 34, perhaps she was his second wife.  Normally people remarried within a year of the death of a spouse and so I looked at deaths and found the death related to Peder Jensen in Hammer in 1771, 25th p. Trin., opslag 129.  The person who died was 47.  Since I don't know Danish I can't be sure this is his wife.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Inger Toudal]

It's the wife of Peder Jensen in Loe who died in 1771. Lis already mentioned this:

Arkivalieronline – new  - 1756-1815 – opslag 132 left page no. 6
1771 – dom 25 P. trin Peder Jensens Kone I Loe 47 aar gl [Peder Jensens wife in Loe (Lov)) 47 years old.

Inger T.

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Paul

Hi
I think that Peder Jensen in Loe (Lov) is the person who looses his wife 1771 and remarry Karen Hansdatter in 1772 and these are the persons we have marriage record for.

I am not so sure that Peder Jensen in Faarup is the same person – and Caren is child of the one in Faarup

This link: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=150684&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Denmark%2C%20Pr%C3%A6st%C3%B8%2C%20Hammer%22&subjectsOpen=628523-50

tells You where to find probates in Hammer

[Inger Toudal]

In the 1787 census, there's only one married Peder Jensen in Hammer parish, the one in Faarup:

http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?bsid=480#480,50458

- and he is married to a Maren Hansdatter.

Inger T.

[Inger Toudal]

Dom. 3tia Adv. 1772 Peder Jensen in Faarup has a son baptized, called Jens. The godmother is
Hans Larsen's daughter Zidse in Loe:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14628-73?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Dom. Sexagesima 1774 Peder Jensen in Faarup has a son baptized, called Hans. The godmother is
Hans Larsen's daughter Magrethe in Loe:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14589-83?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Hans Larsen from Loe was one of the sponsors at the betrothal of Peder Jensen and Maren Hansdatter in 1772.

Maybe the above Peder Jensen in Faarup is, after all, identical to the groom in the 1772 marriage.

- and maybe the Peder Jensen who lived in Faarup in 1771 moved out of the parish?

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Ralph Rasmussen]

The correct Peder Jensen, ostensibly one of the two in 1771, has secured a 'fæste' and is no longer just a laborer. 

Does that leave an opening for a third Peder Jensen, associated with whichever manor owned or controlled Faarup?

My ancestor, Jacob Larsen, is from the immediate area, and married Mette Jensdatter af Faarup on November 1, 1765. 

[Inger Toudal]

Hans Larsen in Loe:

Kilde:    OE-1771
Mandens navn:    Hans Larsen   Mandens erhverv:    bonde, driver auling
Mandens alder:    56   Mandens civilstand:    Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:    1   Mand død (ja/nej):    Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej):    Nej   Hustrus alder:    57
Hustrus civilstand:    Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:    1
Sogn:    Hammer   Herred:    Hammer
Amt:    Præstø   Stednavn:    Loe Bye

He could possibly be Maren Hansdatter's father. I cannot find him in the 1787 census for Hammer parish.

His or his wife's probate could tell us whether they are the parents of Maren Hansdatter who married
Peder Jensen in 1772, and if so, where the couple settled.

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Inger Toudal]

This could be the godmother of Hans b. 1774:

Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Lov Bye, , FT-1787, C6469
Name:     Age:     Maital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:       
- - - - -       
Mads Pedersen    34    Gift    Hosbonde    Bonde, Gaardmand    
Margrethe Hansdatter    32    Gift    Madmoder       
Peder Madsen    9    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Lars Madsen    7    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Ana Madsdatter    5    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Karen Madsdatter    1    Ugift    Børn af 1ste Ægteskab       
Lars Nielsen    17    Ugift    Madmoderen Brodersøn       
Anna Martinsdatter    15    Ugift    Tienste Pige       
Abelone Jørgensdatter    71    Enke    Madmoderens Moder    Ophold hos sin Datter
- - - - -

Her mother is widow Abelone Jørgensdatter.

Magrethe Hansdatter was married 26 Oct. 1778, with Hans Larsen in Loe as sponsor at the betrothal:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14266-84?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Hans Larsen in Loe was buried Dom. 3tia Adv. 1782, 70 y. old:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33500-13293-70?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Inger T.

[Inger Toudal]

The godmother of Hans baptized Dom. 1ma Adv. 1783 was Hans Henriksens's wife in Weiløe:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-14467-80?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Præstø, Hammer, Vejlø, Wejløe Sogn, Wejløe, , FT-1787, C6477
Name:     Age:     Marital status:       Pos. in household:       Occupation:
- - - - -    
Hans Henrichsen    40    Gift    Hosbonde    Gaardmand    
Sidse Hansdatter    36    Gift    Konen       
Peder Hansen    13    Ugift    Deres Børn af første Ægteskab       
Lars Hansen    9    Ugift    Deres Børn af første Ægteskab       
Anne Hansdatter    4    Ugift    Deres Børn af første Ægteskab       
Maren Hansdatter    1    Ugift    Deres Børn af første Ægteskab       
Johanne Michelsdatter    16    Ugift    Tieneste Pige
- - - - -

Sidse, Maren and Margrethe are probably sisters.

Inger T.

[Paul Olesen]

Thank you for all your help.  I only started tracing my Danish ancestors a few years ago and I don't read Danish very well. Without this forum I would never have been able to find any of my Danish ancestors. So, please don't be offended when I tell you I have read and reread all of your postings several times and I am confused.  I understand from your postings that there were two possibly three Peder Jensens in Hammer Sogn.

Am I right in assuming the Peder Jensen and Maren Hansdatter that married in 1772 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14291-87?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501
is the same Peder Jensen and Maren Hansdatter listed in the 1787 Census (1787 Danish Census (Peder Jensen) - Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Faarup Bye, , FT-1787, C6469, Record 483) ?

The listing of the children in that census as being from the 1st marriage is probably a mistake? The children's mother is Maren Hansdatter?

Thank you again for your help. I learn a lot from reading your postings.

Paul

[Inger Toudal]

Hi Paul,

I definitely think that the listing of the children in the 1787 census as being from the 1st marriage is an error, and that Maren Hansdatter is their mother.

There are many indications that the couple married in Hammer 1772 is identical with Peder Jensen, 60 y, and Maren Hansdatter, 34 y, in the 1787 census. It seems that Peder Jensen in Loe, whose 1st wife died in 1771, since moved to Faarup with his 2nd wife.

I have not studied the baptisms of all Peder Jensen's children born in Faarup, but the godmothers of the first two children are daughters of Hans Larsen in Loe, who was sponsor for the bride in 1772. And the godmother in 1783 seems to be the same Sidse Hansdatter that was godmother in 1772. There must be a good reason why Hans Henriksen's wife travels from Vejlø parish to act as godmother in Hammer church in Nov. 1783, see http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kortpres.htm

Hopefully, there's a probate after Hans Larsen in Loe, who died 1782, which could clear up the whole thing, mentioning his children, and the husbands of his daughters.

Best regards,
Inger T.