In California, need help with Danish ancestors named "Craig"

Startet af , 09 Nov 2014 - 00:48

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Thank you so much for providing this forum with responses in English.  So far, I've been unable to discover the birthplace and the family members of one of our more interesting ancestors, and would much appreciate any information about him or how to obtain that information.

His name was Charles Henry Craig, born about 1817 in Denmark (according to the 1870 census).  I've learned that he was an interpreter, lived in Mexico, probably Mazatlan (along the Pacific Coast near the entrance to the Gulf of California), where he married my great grandmother, Bata Maltos.  They had a daughter, Antonia Craig born in Mexico in 1855, and then he came to San Jose, California (near San Francisco) around 1867. He passed away sometime between 1870 and 1877.  He may have lived in Massachusetts when he came to America (according to a voter's registration).

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Janice Rogers-Rezler
Carmel, California
U.S.A.

Eva Morfiadakis

Hi,

Craig seems quite English to me. I think his Danish would be Krag. First namnes possibly Karl Henrik.

Eva M

Eva M

Eva, thanks for your good thought.  The little bit that I have read about the Danish naming convention in 1817 left me wondering about anglicization of his name, and you have helped to confirm it. 

I'm working with cousins to build our family trees (on Ancestry.com), which have led us into Mexico, Canada, France, and Great Britain for the Maltos, Dionne, and Jewett ancestors, but researching this Danish ancestor is a stretch because of the language and cultural differences.  So, thanks again for your kind insight.

- Janice

Lis Helleberg

Dear Janice,

I was wondering if you have seen this information http://genforum.genealogy.com/craig/messages/1738.html which I find may relate to your family due to the Massachusetts connection.

Somehow I think that you should be looking towards Ireland. His approx. year of birth could match very well with leaving Ireland in the 1840s during the big hunger period. An if he was an interpreter his knowledge of English had to be pretty good. What makes you think he might be Danish??

And by the way - while surfing around I found this as well http://familiamaltos.blogspot.dk/

Good luck

Lis
Area of interest: Thy, especially Vang, Thisted, Hillerslev, Hundborg

Hi Lis, I appreciate the Massachusetts link, and your other thoughts.  It's rather a long story as to why I'm leaning towards Denmark.

I'm pursuing the Danish origin because of two documents (1) his daughter Antonia's death certificate and (2) the 1870 U.S. census in California, both listing his place of birth as Denmark.  And, I was swayed more in that direction because there are other 1870 census listings for people born in Denmark that have anglicized names, such as John and William Craig. 

It's possible that his birth name might have been something like Karl Henrik Krag, per Eva (who kindly commented earlier) as well as from a wonderful librarian at the Museum of Danish American Genealogy Center in Elk Horn, Iowa, U.S.A.

But one anomaly in this pursuit, is that in two Voters Registrations, he is listed as a native of Massachusetts, and in two others, he is listed as "Naturalized."  So, there lies the mystery.  I'm quite certain that they are all the same Charles Henry Craig by the date of birth, his location, and his occupation of "interpreter," which was rare.

Another anomaly is that the Scot/English/Irish Craig's (of which there are many) seem to group together.  The same names seem to move a bit from city to city, but congregate together in city directories and census listings.  This Craig is not among them, and in census listings is listed as rooming with people from France, Germany, and Mexico or Spain.

Your link to the Maltos blog is spot on!  And I'm happy you found it.  The blog is written by my two cousins, and we're all working together on this fascinating genealogical quest.  They'll be delighted when I tell them about your finding it!

Eva Morfiadakis


Hi,

I saw the 1870 Census listing him as born in Denmark. I also thought about his title "interpreter" that he must have had some good knowledge of English. If he had been living in the US for let's say 20 years,  he must have acquired some good knowledge of the language enough to help people of Danish origin and possibly German coming to the US. Maybe he came from a part of Denmark where German is/was spoken.

I suggested Krag/h/ as his last name. Krog/h/ is also possible.

Eva M

Eva M

Eva Morfiadakis

I looked at Census 1870 once more. Henry is not being mentioned. He seems to be living with a German family John Mier, saloon keeper and his wife Frederica b. in Wurtemberg (Würtemberg).

Quite an international neighbourhood he was living in,  but probably not uncommon in Cal. in those day, but Charles is the only Dane.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11853-117315-63?cc=1438024

Eva M
Eva M

Eva, you have hit upon an important observation and something that I'd been wondering about...his language skills, and the possibility of Craig speaking German.  You see, the coastal town in Mexico where I believe he was in the 1850/60's had a major German presence.  In fact they were responsible for much of the shipping trade, and I had wondered if he'd translated for the Germans.  If so, it makes sense that in California he would be living with people from Germany in 1870. 

Do you happen to know which area of Denmark German was spoken from about 1815 to 1840? 

Thank you,
Janice

Eva Morfiadakis


In 1815 Denmark was a bigger country stretching all down to Altona in Germany. In 1864 Denmark lost the war against the Prussians and had to give up these parts and a little bit more. In 1921 there was a referendum and the present borders were agreed upon.

In these parts parts of course German and Danish were spoken. So I would say you should go looking for him in the southern parts of Denmark and in northern Germany Schleswig and Holstein.

Not being Danish (I'm Swedish) I can't tell if it was common to learn German in higher education in Denmark in those days. It was in Sweden until about 1945 when English took over. Probably the same situation in Denmark.

What I want to say is there were people elsewhere speaking German but focus on the south of Denmark.

Eva M
Eva M

Lis Helleberg

I was taking a look trying to find something that might match Charles Henry Craig with a "German" touch.

In the census 1835 this came up. The age isn't that much out of the range and the name could easily be changed to Charles Heny - and maybe Craig - but it may also be a wild guess.

Navn: Clas Hinr. Kramp   Køn: M   Alder: 20   Civilstand: Unverheir.
Erhverv: Dienstbote   
Kilde: Vz-1835  Amt: Kanzleigüter   Herred:    Sogn: Tangstedt   Stednavn: Dorf Mellingstedt, Ksp. Bergstedt, Kanzleigut Tangstedt
Matr.nr/adresse: Hufenstelle   Husstands-/familienr: Me11   Indtastningsnr: C5994   Løbenr.: 1171

Best
Lis

Area of interest: Thy, especially Vang, Thisted, Hillerslev, Hundborg

I had absolutely no idea that the territory of Denmark extended so far south prior to 1864! Thank you for bringing it to my attention, Eva.  Yes, of course... borders were far more fluid then.  Fluctuating borders and overlapping languages has been the underling theme with the American/Spanish/French ancestor pursuits, but when I hopped over to the Danish quest, it escaped me.   

Now, doing some reading about Denmark's history in the 1800's, and learning more about the political/economic scene, along with the regional/social strata of languages, a path forward is beginning to present itself.  Hooray!   Studying history was never so interesting as it is when pursuing a trail of clues.  Do you find it so?

Thanks so much for your help,

- j

Hi Lis,

I appreciate your lead into what was far too overwhelming for me to tackle... Denmark's census.  Yikes! 
And you found a candidate with a "German Touch" no less.  Marvelous.  I've put him into my list of "bread crumb trails," to follow.   And, have discovered a couple of surname Kramp entries on passenger lists as possibilities.

My understanding of the Danish and German languages is nil, so I put what you posted into the Google translator, and I believe it reads, "Claus Herik Kramp, age 20, unmarried, and occupation servant."  Is that what you make of it?  And, oh dear, is all of this:

Office Chambers goods Herred: Sogn: Tangstedt Stednavn: Village Mellingstedt, Ksp. Bergstedt, Kanzleigut Tangstedt
Matr.nr/adresse: hooves point Husstands- / familienr: ME11 Indtastningsnr: C5994 Løbenr .: 1171

his address? 

So much appreciated and all the best to you,
- J

Lis Helleberg

Hi,

I was in a hurry when I posted it - sorry. II is all in German because it relates to the old Danish areas in German (Slesvig-Holstein). However, you seem to have gotten it right. As I don't like scrolling down the page to check your answer, I just summerize it below. I may not have all the words translated correctly.

Navn: Clas Hinr. Kramp   Køn: M   Alder: 20   Civilstand: Unverheir.
Erhverv: Dienstbote   
Kilde: Vz-1835  Amt: Kanzleigüter   Herred:    Sogn: Tangstedt   Stednavn: Dorf Mellingstedt, Ksp. Bergstedt, Kanzleigut Tangstedt
Matr.nr/adresse: Hufenstelle   Husstands-/familienr: Me11   Indtastningsnr: C5994   Løbenr.: 1171

Name: Clas Hinr. (most likely short for Heinrich or Hinrich - German for Henrik) Sex: Male, Age 20 Unmarried.
Occupation: Servant.

Source of information: Census 1835, County: Kanzleigüter, District (empty) Parish: Tangsted 
(Stednavn - a more specific description of the area in the parish): Dorf Mellingstedt (the village Mellingstedt), Ksp. Bergstedt, Kanzleigut Tangsted (This is in Slesvig-Holstein).

I haven't checked out if he can be found in later censuses, so as I wrote earlier - I may have sent you out on a wild goose chase :-) .

A page relating to that area is:
http://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/census1860/sogn2843/placenamelist/?pname=Dorf+Mellingstedt%2C+Ksp.+Bergstedt%2C+Kanzleigut+Tangstedt which is both in Danish and English.

Best
Lis
Area of interest: Thy, especially Vang, Thisted, Hillerslev, Hundborg

Lise Gorgone

We had a colony of foreigners in Elsinore, where they spoke in German and English, and I might have crossed that name Craig looking for my ancestors at Skt.Mariæ ki, Frederiksborg Amt.
Kind regards
Lise Gorgone

Lis,

Thanks for the census translation.  This area of Slesvig-Holstein, being the old Dutch area is particularly interesting.  I had noticed these two "places of origin" were listed for a surprisingly large number of people in the 1870 census for San Francisco.  It makes sense that he has a high probability of emigrating from there.

I appreciate your help, Lis.

Hello Lise, and thanks for your comment.  Skt.Mariæ ki, Frederiksborg Amt is a place I hadn't thought to look, but if you might have come across the surname Craig in that area, it's certainly worth a try.  It could put an interesting angle on things.  Much appreciate the suggestion.

Susanne Larson

I have nothing to add to this, but was just browsing and it is such a great story! How fun. Much more intriguing than my peasants to date.  I am so thrilled to have found this forum and really appreciate all the help I have received to date.  best of luck.
Susanne (from California via North Dakota - and ancestors in Denmark/Sweden/Norway/German)

Hi Susan,

It's a fun and difficult quest to be sure.  If you've not already found them, the Danish Museum in Elk Horn Iowa is a fabulous resource.

Good luck.