Need Help

Paul Olesen · 17 Nov 2014 - 21:14

I have a puzzle that I hope someone will be able to help me with.

Maren Hansdatter is my 4th great grandmother. She married Peder Jensen 13 Jun 1728 Præstø ant Hammer Sogn.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14291-87?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

I am pretty sure that her father's name was Hans Larsen. He is listed in the 1771 census as living in Loe, age 57, one marriage. His death is listed in Loe 15 Dec 1782 age 70.

Maren Hansdatter died 8 Sept 1800 at the age of 58

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14409-89?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

I looked for the birth of Maren and found a listing 20 March 1746 in Hammer sogn. .

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-15140-72?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902

Now I am not sure that this is the right listing. If she was 58 at her death, she should have been born about 1742

I also found several confirmations listing in Hammer sogn, Loe bye for children whose father is listed as Hans Larsen. Including one for a Maren Hansdatter in 1762 but no father listed. I was not able to find any birth records for the other children in Hammer Sogn

While looking for a birth record for Hans Larsen I found a marriage record 1733 for "Dom: 22p: Trin Hans Larsen og Sidze Christensdatter af Blangsløv copulerede"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14984-63?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902

I look in the records for Mogenstrup sogn, Blangsløv and found at least 10 records for children born to Hans Larsen including one for a Maren in 1741.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33499-8574-55?cc=2078555&wc=M5KH-BZ5:357517501,358801401,359019801,359019802

Two of the children whose father is listed as Hans Larsen were born before the Hans Larsen who married Sidze Christensdatter were married. Caren early 1733 and Anna 1731.

I am confused. Is the Hans Larsen listed as the father of the children in Mogenstrup the same Hans Larsen who is the father of my 4th great grandmother, Maren Hansdatter?

Is the birth listed for a Maren in Mogenstrup in 1741 her birth?

Am I looking at more than one Hans Larsen and if so how do I tell which child was born to which Hans Larsen??

I could not find any additional children born to Hans Larsen in Mogenstrup after 1748. Maybe Hans and Sidze moved to Hammer sogn, Loe?

??? Paul

Ralph Rasmussen · 17 Nov 2014 - 23:46

The Maren Hansdatter in your first reference married recent widower Peder Jensen on Trinity XX! 1772. The betrothal was January 3, 1772.

This must be him a year earlier:

Kilde:   OE-1771
Mandens navn:   Peder Jensen   Mandens erhverv:   gaaer i dagleje, hun væver
Mandens alder:   43   Mandens civilstand:   Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab:   1   Mand død (ja/nej):   Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej):   Nej   Hustrus alder:   40
Hustrus civilstand:   Gift   Hustrus nr. ægteskab:   1
Sogn:   Hammer   Herred:   Hammer
Amt:   Præstø   Stednavn:   Loe Bye
Indtastningsnr:   C0261   Løbenr.:   80

The witnesses to Maren's children's baptisms may be the clue to her father's name. A Hans may even be named as her father among those witnesses.

Ralph Rasmussen · 18 Nov 2014 - 01:09

To follow up.....

Image 132, left Trinity XXV 1771, Peder Jensen's wife, aged 47, was buried.

A bit of a difference from the transcribed age in Oeder's in 1771, but surely the right Peder Jensen.

Inger Toudal · 18 Nov 2014 - 12:28

For reference: https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,86855.0.html

Kilde: OE-1771
Mandens navn: Hans Larsen Mandens erhverv: bonde, driver auling
Mandens alder: 56 Mandens civilstand: Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab: 1 Mand død (ja/nej): Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej): Nej Hustrus alder: 57
Hustrus civilstand: Gift Hustrus nr. ægteskab: 1
Sogn: Hammer Herred: Hammer
Amt: Præstø Stednavn: Loe Bye

Possibly his widow:

Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Lov Bye, , FT-1787, C6469
Name: Age: Maital status: Pos. in household: Occupation:
- - - - -
Mads Pedersen 34 Gift Hosbonde Bonde, Gaardmand
Margrethe Hansdatter 32 Gift Madmoder
Peder Madsen 9 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Lars Madsen 7 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Ana Madsdatter 5 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Karen Madsdatter 1 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Lars Nielsen 17 Ugift Madmoderen Brodersøn
Anna Martinsdatter 15 Ugift Tienste Pige
Abelone Jørgensdatter 71 Enke Madmoderens Moder Ophold hos sin Datter
- - - - -

Source:    FT-1787
Name:    Abelone Jørgensdatter   Sex:    K
Age:    71
Position in household:    Madmoderens Moder   Marital status:    Enke
Occupation:    Ophold hos sin Datter
Parish:    Hammer   District:    Hammer
County:    Præstø   Place name:    Hammer Sogn
Title no/address:    Lov Bye
Marriage no:    1

Abelone Jørgensdatter apparently died between the censuses 1 Jul. 1787 and 1 Feb. 1801.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Paul Olesen · 18 Nov 2014 - 19:17

Maren Hansdatter is my 4th great grandmother. She married Peder Jensen 13 Jun 1728 Præstø ant Hammer Sogn.

Sorry, I typed the wrong date it should have been 20 June 1772.
paul

Inger Toudal · 19 Nov 2014 - 08:26

3 Apr. 1748 Hans Larsen's daughter in Loe was baptized Citze:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-15126-35?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902 - right page

The godmother of two of Maren's children was Sidse Hansdatter (see https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,86855.0.html).

The pages between Dom. 23 post Trin. 1748 and Dom. 2 post Trin. 1750 are missing:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-15069-70?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902

- as well as baptisms 1752 - 1755:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-33500-13747-9?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902

Dom. Oculi, 13 March 1757 Hans Larsen's son in Loe was baptized Peder:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14977-60?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501 - No 9

His age would fit with Maren's brother mentioned in the 1787 census:

Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Faarup Bye, , FT-1787, C6469
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Peder Jensen 60 Gift Hosbonde Gaardmand, Bonde
Maren Hansdatter 34 Gift Madmoder
Karen Pedersdatter 13 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Anna Pedersdatter 11 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Kirsten Pedersdatter 8 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Hans Pedersen 4 Ugift Børn af 1ste Ægteskab
Peder Hansen 30 Ugift Koenens Broder

If Maren's age in the 1787 census is somewhat correct, maybe Maren b. 1746 died, and another Maren was born later?

Best regards,
Inger T.

Inger Toudal · 19 Nov 2014 - 10:24

Maybe Maren's age is wrong in the 1787 census, as well as in the death record, and she was actually born 1746
and confirmed 1762?

I looked at the confirmation records and found Cice Hansdaatter, Hans Larsen's daughter in Loe, in 1766;
Magrethe Hansdatter in Loe, Hans Larsen's daughter, in 1770;
and Peder Hansen in Loe, hos sin Fader Hans Larsen, 18 years old, in 1776:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33500-13802-63?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

When did Maren have her last child, who seems to be the daughter Anna Sophia:

Præstø, Hammer, Hammer, Faarup Bye, , 3, FT-1801, B6395
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Peder Jensen    73    Enke    huusbonde    bonde og gaardbeboer
Karen Pedersdatter    26    Ugift    hans barn
Anna Sophia Pedersdatter    10    Ugift    hans barn
Kirsten Pedersdatter    20    Ugift    hans barn
Peder Andersen    33    Ugift    tjeneste karl

Inger T.

Ralph Rasmussen · 19 Nov 2014 - 14:45

Anna Sophia was baptized Trinity Sunday 1791, upper right of:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14684-18?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

Paul Olesen · 19 Nov 2014 - 18:23

Hi
Thanks for your help. This is what I have found and some assumptions I have made. If you see any problems, please tell me.

I found a death record for Maren Hansdatter 1800 in Faarup Bye.

"(1800) d 8 September Gaardmand Peder Jensens hustru i Faarup, q, 58"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14409-89?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

That would put her birth at 1742.

I found a birth for a Maren to a Hans Larsen, Mogenstrup sogn, Dom. 26 ss Trin 1741.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33499-8574-55?cc=2078555&wc=M5KH-BZ5:357517501,358801401,359019801,359019802

That would fit with the birth year given in the death record. I think that Maren is the Maren married to Peder Jensen and my 4th great grandmother. I think the age given for her in the 1787 census is wrong. If it were 44 rather than 34 it would put her birth at about 1743.

I also found in Mogenstrup sogn Mette (1735), Sveno (1736), Maren (1738) this Maren died (1739), Jens (1740), Marie (1744), Kirsten (1746), all having father listed as Hans Larsen. I think these are siblings of Maren. The reason is that in each of the records as near as I can tell there is a Christensen or Christensdatter listed as godparent.

Hans Larsen married Sidzel Christensdatter 1733.

Dom: 22p: Trin Hans Larsen og Sidze Christensdatter af Blangsløv copulerede

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33500-14984-63?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ8:357517501,358801401,357885701,358856902

I assume that Hans Larsen must have moved to Loe Bye. After 1746, I cannot find any more children that I can attribute to Hans Larsen in Mogenstrup.

I found a death record for Hans Larsen.

(1782) Dom: 3 tia Adv: Hans Larsen i Loe 70Aar

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33500-13293-70?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

I also found two records for the death of Hans Larsen's wife. 1783 and 1791. I think the 1783 record is Sidze Christensen the one I am looking for.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33500-13293-70?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33500-13270-79?cc=2078555&wc=M5KC-MJ6:357517501,358801401,357885701,358861501

There must be two and maybe more Hans Larsens in Loe and Blangsløv. The difficult thing is trying to separate families and wives and children.

Because of the lack of records when I finally decide who my 5th great grandparents were, I do not think I will not be able trace that family branch back to the next generation. That being the case I will start to work on another branch of my Danish families. All my family and my wife's family are from Denmark.

Thank you again for your help. Det er meget værdsat!

Paul Olesen

Inger Toudal · 19 Nov 2014 - 23:31

Hi Paul,

I see at least two problems in your assumptions:

1) Hans Larsen in Mogenstrup had a daughter Kirsten in 1746, the same year Hans Larsen's daughter Maren was born in Loe, Hammer parish. If Hans Larsen from Mogenstrup moved to Hammer around 1746, the children born in Mogenstrup would probably have been confirmed in Hammer.

2) Hans Larsen in Loe died in 1782, and his widow Abelone in 1791. I'm not able to read who died in 1783, but it cannot be Hans Larsen's wife or widow. It is, of course, possible that Abelone was his 2nd wife. According to Oeders, he was in his 1st marriage in 1771, so in that case he should have remarried 1771 or later.

The only proof would be to find a probate or two:

http://aurelia-clemons.dk/estate1.htm

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi%2Fsord%2Fwaypoint%2FM5KD-PTL%3A333466801%3Fcc%3D2015318

There's usually an index of names at the beginning or end of each protocol.

Best regards,
Inger T.