Help with Karen Hansdatters Parents

[Jan Nielsen]

Hello,
Having difficulty verifying the parents of Karen Hansdatter, my 3rd gr. grandmother.
I found two birth possibilities:
Kirke Saaby, Roskilde amt, church book 1771-1831 ops 149, #6. Shows parents as Hans Nielsen and Maren Jensdatter. and her birth as 1814.
Rye, Roskilde amt, Church record 1814-1825 ops.58 #4, shows birth as Oct. 26, 1816 and Parents as Hans Dinesen and Marie Kirstine Davidsdatter.

Karen was married to Lars Christensen (Kristensen) (b.1811, Saaby) on April 15, 1937 in Rye. I did not see the parents names on the marriage record. Rye, Church book 1832-1838 ops. 54, #41
One of their children was my 2nd gr. Grandmother, Karen Marie Larsdatter, b. 1838, Rye. all the records from then on are correct.

Lars and Karen show up in the 1840,1845, 1850 etc. census. Karen,s age shows in the census as birth date 1814. In the 1845 census she is Karen Marie from Torkildstrup, in 1840 she is Karen from Saaby.

Some family record shows Hans Dinesen and Marie Kirstine as the parents but now I am not sure. HELP!

Could someone look at this and help me once and for all to get the parents correct.
Regards,
Jan Nielsen

[Ralph Rasmussen]

It is unlikely that both Karen Hansdatters were vaccinated on the same day. 

The bride was vaccinated July 12, 1830 by K....

Does that fit either of the birth records/confirmation records?

[Jan Nielsen]

Hi Ralph,
That was a good tip. FYI the marriage record shows the Karen's vaccination date as 1820.

The Karen of Saaby conf. record shows vac. date as 1818, so most likely not her.

I have looked at all the Rye records, 1825-32 and 1832-38 and could not find her confirmation record.
The birth records do not have it either, at least that I could not see it.

Could you see if you have better luck or any suggestions. I amd not very familiar with confirmation records.

Thanks,
Jan

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Bingo!

The marriage application/licence for the couple in in the 1779-1814 Rye parish record, image 113, top right.  The bride's vaccination date is again noted, with her birth village, Torkildstrup. 

The Karen Hansdatter I see in confirmed in Kirke Såby 1814-1832, 211 #187  has a vaccination date of 1820.  Her birth is also briefly noted in 'opslag' 88.

[Jan Nielsen]

Thanks very much.
Still a little confused.
a. How can marriage records/licence show up in Rye church record 1779-1814 when event occurred in 1837? What am I missing.
b. Also Karen birth record is (old ver.) book 1771-1831 ops 147 #5 .
Could you look at this record and translate what you see, especially last column..is that vaccination?
also noted your ops 88 in book 1814-32.

So bottom line, parents are Hans Nielsen and Maren Jensdatter ?
Thanks, Jan

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Point a - AO dates for the parish records are the dates of the basic records.  After the transition the old books were variously used to record data that had no fast place in the new books, e.g. vaccinations or 'indtegning til ægteskab', the form for betrothals after 1799.  If you catch the same books with Family Search the inclusive dates will be of all the various entries.

Point b - The last column is the mother's introduction, her old testament style welcome after being ritually unclean.

Karen's birth December 11, baptism Advent III, the same parents, witnesses the father's sister Birte Nielsdatter, Lars Rasmussen, xxx Hansen and Eric Olsen xxx, the introduction Sunday after Epiphany.

Bottom line, no longer any doubt. 

It will be very strange if Karen does not have a daughter Maren and a son Hans, along with children named after her husband and his parents.

[Jan Nielsen]

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for the help and lesson. I now understand much better.

And yes Karen did have children named Karen, Maren and Hans.
Thanks again,
Jan